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Throttle not working and battery light on after start

4K views 35 replies 7 participants last post by  oldbod 
#1 ·
-03 TDCI 115, Driven 380 000km.

When i use the preheater to heatup the engine, after i start the car the car idles bit roughly, the battery light is on, and the car does not response to the throttle. After ~30sec the engine revs up ~200rpm on its own, and everything works like a charm.

I managed to get same problem few times last winter when i turned the car off for a while (example for a refuel), but after the winter it has not happened again unless i use the preheater.

Ive noticed, that if you use the Cluster check function to check the battery voltage, when the fault occurs, the charging is only ~12volts, and after the revup, the charging goes up to ~14.4v

ive tryed to eliminate the smartcharge by unplugging the smartcharge from the altenator, whitout any change. Ive changed the battery.

After reading this forum, i founded lot of similarities whit the hot start problem (exacly same behavior, but i have the bat light extra). So i took the car to the dealer for an update. Sadly, the car allready has newest software on PCM, Injectors and on Gearbox. Also there were no faultcodes at all.

Any ideas ?
 
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#2 ·
Do you get any smoke from the exhaust?

I had this problem and it was a sign of my turbo dying. It didn't last long after the prob started.

However I now get a similar fault but it is while some oil burns off that has leaked through the valve stem seals and once that has gone (10sec or so), I get a puff of blue smoke out that back and all is well.
 
#3 ·
Nothing noticeable, small "gauze" of smoke when doing emergency go, but on normal driving pretty much nothing. Well, cant say for sure but i think the turbo is fine, the problem first occured over 60 000km ago, and it still runs like a dream, and there is no drop on oil level during the oil change period.

But... i just remembered, when doing the instrument cluster test, on the part where it is suposed to show the ROM level, it says "Fail - e1050" .... Any chance this has something to do whit it ?
 
#4 ·
What sort of heater is it? Battery powered electric heater, Fuel burner type heater or a mains electricity powered heater?
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
No but the heater will be drawing a load from the battery.

You need to check the battery voltage after leaving the car for a few hours or 1st thing in the morning if possible.

Put the ignition and headlights on, Leave for a few minutes and check again.

Check again with the engine running with no electrics on, Then finally with the engine running, Headlights on, Heater blower on max,
and the heated rear screen on.

Heated front screen and aircon should be off though.

Engine running at tickover not being driven..

.
 
#7 ·
ok sounds like that when you start the car from cold ..it is not getting up to normal revs..and this is causing the alternator not to give max voltage .and so this is why you only get 12v when you check the voltage when the problem occurs because you are only getting battery voltage and the alternator has not delivered the extra voltage because ..two reasons ...one..the alternator is faulty and not comming in to give the proper 14.4 volts ..OR .. the engine is misfireing due to faluty injector s of fuel .....fuel waxing in extreem cold ...could cause low initail performace ..is the motor garaged at night ..does the cold start problem occur even in daytime if the motor is parked for an hour or so ...etc.etc.s
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
Outside temperature is between +2 and +7 celsius currently... Last winter it was -30 celsius, and the mondeo started, and runned just fine from the cold, whitout any perheat.

I start the car from the cold, whitout any preheat -> Everything works fine.

I start the car "warm" (engine temp ~55celsius), no matter if the engine is heated by the Eberspacher, or driven warm, the gas pedal doesent function, and the bat light is on.

I start the car Warm (engine temp <70celsius) -> Everything works fine.

Battery is brand new, and the Charger itself, and the smartcharge seams to work.

I uploaded an video of the behavior to youtube:

So what happened on the video:

I turned the Eberspächer on for ~20minutes, the engine temp was ~60c and i started the car. The car starts normaly, idles bit rougly, thortle is unresponsive. You can hear me pumping the gas, and nothing happens. After while, you see small revup on the rpm, after that the bat light shuts down, and everything works just fine.

Edit: And you can see the voltage, 11.9volts whit blower on 3, seat heater on, and eberspacher runing and lights on.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
What are the voltages though? Obviously if the battery light is on all is not well.

Battery 11.9 before you crank the engine? Thats a bit low.

Fully charged battery should be 12.8volts, 12.4 if 50% charged

Below 12 is dead. Need to lookmore into the voltages with the engine off and under load
with the engine off, Does the voltage drop like that?

I think you have a duff cell.. Unless that voltage is not correct. In which case it could be a wiring issue
or lazy alternator.
 
#11 ·
Below 600rph(ish) drivebywire is disabled, hence futile pumping of accel pedal. Is this a variant of the warm start problem? PCM update?
Took it to the dealer last monday, told that the behavior fits for the warm start problem. They hooked up the computers, and the car allready has all the PCM, injectors and gearbox updates.

For me it kinda feels its somehow related to the engine temp. Example. This morning i used the eberspacher for 30minutes. I get in to the car, turn on the ignition, and the temp gauge goes up to half way. I turn the engine on, bat light on and no gas pedal (nether does the windscreen heater work). the temp gauge goes all the way back down. I turn the car off, go to cluster test and check the temp from there, 55c... meanwhile, the temp gauge goes again up to the half way, and then slowly drags back down. I wait while (~45sec), untill the temp gauge does not anymore reach the half way on ignition, turn the engine on, and boom... Everything works just fine...
 
#12 ·
I still think its a voltage issue. You can see from your dash video. Everything works once the voltage has increased.
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm uploading another video from this morning. I turned on the ignition, the temp gauge raised to half way. I turned the engine on, bat light on, and no throttle. Turned the engine off, and turned the ignition on. Temp gauge raised to half way, waited a while, and the temp gauge slowly dragged to the minimum. Turned the engine on, no throttle, and bat light on. Repeated this few time, and then i left the engine to idle. After a while, bat light turned off, and throttle started working again.

Now, i turned the engine off again, and started it again, everything works like a charm. turned it off again, started it again, everything works like a charm... So i don't think its entirely voltage issue, since i doubt that during those 3mins the alternator charged more amps then the 5 cranks disposed. But, there is something about the voltages / controls, since example the windscreen heater does not function when the bat light is on (and that has straight wire from the alternator). But still, when you plug in the multimeter, you can see that there is charging.

Also, this morning, when the bat light was on and i pressed the throttle, i noticed some relay click, and this *skwiikiskwiiki* sound. (like pulley whit bad bearing spinning in low speeds). when i lifted the throttle, the skwiiki sound stopped, pressed the throttle again, and it restarted. The Skwiiki was constant as long as the throttle was held down.

I think you can hear it on the video as well... I'l edit the video later, takes a while to upload 600mb / 5min video to youtube


EDIT:

And the video

 
#15 ·
Its a time limit for editing the post.

Shame you didnt have the voltage showing, But its made me even more convinced its the alternator at fault.
 
#17 ·
could this be something to do with the alternator ..you say that when the fault occurs and before i presume it occurs the voltage when checked at the battery terminals is 12 volts this would indicate that the alternator is not delivering its full 14 volts which it shuld read at the battery terminals once the engine is running .. possible causes for this could be ..slipping v belt.. due to bad tensioner ..cutout in the alternator sticking ... alternator not being spun at the correct revs...due to low rpm... i feel this could be a contributory factor ..as the rpm looks low .i.e below 850rpm which is necessary rpm ...for maximum alternator performance .. .It is baffling that she continues to idle and will not respond to accelerator when she has been preheated ..mabey something is sensing overheating of engine and is trying to cut engine to compensate...there is a corelationship between the voltage and the temp of the engine . I cant understand why the engine will not take acelleration ..this has to be a fault with the signalling from the acellerator to the injector pump . or some failsafe device like the limp mode function is stopping you from acellerating .to protect the engine .. suggest ..you check the accelerator switch for functionality .. check the alternator ..for not delivering 14 ..volts ..check the rpm of the engine ..is it running on low rpm ..when idling ..check the sender unit in the engine head by disconnecting it and see if problem persists.s
 
#18 ·
Battery showing 11.8 volts in the 1st video. Then slowly limbs to 14+ volts. As soon as the voltage reaches 14+ the throttle works.

11.8 is low for a battery. Fully charged should be 12.8 volts. 12.4 is 50%...

Either the battery is duff and upsetting the alternator or the alternator is having a senile moment before kicking in.
 
#19 ·
What makes me wonder is the temperature issue. Surely it would be reasonable to expect it to happen all the time whatever temperature the engine was.The PCM operates the smart charge and also monitors temperature. Dropping the smart plug off may help to narrow down the culprit. A very interesting fault to say the least
 
#20 ·
1st post says he disconnected the smart charge. And fault persists.

Changed the battery also. Leaves the alternator.
 
#21 ·
Now it gets interesting. Today, entered the car and turned the ignition on, checked the battery voltage, 11.9v (whit eberspächer, heater, heated seat and sidelights on), turned the engine on, no throttle and the bat light was on as expected, and the voltage boosted up to 12.8v...

After few sec's the voltage went up all the way to 13.5v and the bat light was still on. The engine was idling about ~800rmp, then i turned the steering wheel... the load of the power steering made the engine stall... The rpm's dropped around ~200rpm, but the engine managed to keep running when you released the wheel. Played few times whit it, and it stalled. Restarted it, and everything worked just fine... :/

So now this is bit misleading, the fact that that the windscreen heater does not work points towards the alternator, but the voltage rise when the engine is on says the alternator works (new one is 410euros so i'm not that interested to change it just to try out)

When i plugged out the smartcharge pin from the alternator, it gave out solid 12.8volts, battery light on, and no throttle response.
 
#23 ·
What is the battery voltage before you switch the heater on though? 1st thing in the morning or after its been parked
for a while?

Anything less than 12.4 and i would be putting it on charge or replacing it.

12.4 = 50% charged. The heater seems to be taking too much out of the battery.

Another option if you can, Put the battery on charge and leave it charging whilst the heater is running.

Disconnect the charger whilst you start the car so you dont blow the fuses. As soon as it starts put the charger back on.

Im guessing either the car will rev up instantly, Or it will rev up as soon as the charger starts to supply more power.
 
#25 ·
Wouh, update. It toke some time, but finaly i figured it out and managed to fix it.

The stock heater hose routing sucks... Big time... Basicly it divides the heat coming from the block to 2 lines. One goes straight back to circulation, and the anotherone goes to heater core. The one that goes to heater core is divided again, and has the eberspächer on side of it.

Somehow, this causes that on the heatercore and eberspächer side, the coolant is boiling, and on the block side the coolant is -20, when you turn the engine on, the boiling coolant from the heatercore rushes to the block, and confuses the ECU "wtf?! it was just -20 it and now it says +88, pfff f**k it, im going back to sleep" or something like that.

So, i striped out all of the original hoses, bought 4m of heating hose and rerouted the heat from Block - eberspächer - heatercore - and back to block.

Now the temperature stays steady, and no matter what, the thrortle works always after the starting up.

Another bonus is, that now when all the cooland goes through the heater core, the AC starts to blow warmer air much more sooner, and it blows bit more hotter on the hottest setting.
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Very late, but that's really interesting. I wonder if as original the eberspacher is meant to pump mostly round the heater core and much less the block. I noticed (eventually) that your unit has the water pump built in - must make installation much easier.

Mind if I ask where the eberspacher was fitted? I've never seen it documented and I've got one I'd like to fit...
 
#27 ·
Contemplated fitting one myself. I bought a 24volt one some years back. But i couldnt be

bothered adding the extra fuel lines and 2 batteries to power it.

Mine was just the air heater not one that also heated the water. I had the idea of routing the

exhaust from the heater to a small heat exchanger to heat the water or oil.
 
#28 ·
Mine came off an mb van about 8 years ago. (Another project lost in the mists of time).

I was thinking about feeding mine thru a small heater/fan unit (eg the rear heater from a galaxy) for warm air as well as maybe for hot water on my boat. Then i got a galaxy with one already installed, and the other unit just sat. Had a few ideas for adding to the base unit - also lost in the mists....

The blown air units like yours were a lot more expensive s/h than water ones when i was looking.
 
#29 ·
I just had a quick look and it seems some car ones are quite cheap. They do heat the water

rather than the cars interior though so some plumbing would be needed.

Seen some Rover 75 ones quite cheap. Although i have been looking at some Rover 75's also..

oops....

I was tempted by one on ebay recently. Wouldnt start but otherwise in excellent condition..
 
#30 ·
I thought it would be easier to heat the water and run the fan (on galaxy, very simple if u only use rear heater - no flaps to worry about) than make a route for warm air duct. But mostly it was cheaper than air one.

Rover 75 seems like a proper car. Good equipment levels, comfy and quick. I've thought about one myself once or twice esp just after rover went down and they were around really cheap! Had a couple of rover (honda) cars myself, went on for 15+ years with only minimal maintenance and no failures apart from one elec window - took it apart to find a beautifully made motor with a breather pipe -crushed between motor and window frame during assembly. Rolleyes....
 
#31 ·
Had lots of Austin/BL/Rover cars.

Mini's (lots), Metro's (a few), SD1's (several), Montego/Maestro (several), Rover 800's (several).

825Diesel had over 200k on the clock and towed my van all over the place with ease. I think it

used as much fuel as a petrol though.
 
#32 · (Edited by Moderator)
Only had one mini myself, my sister had two plus a rover 216efi,dad had two landcrabs and a maxi (only time i was embarrassed selling a car - it chose the point when new owner was picking it up (only 16k,fblsh, 4yrs old) ro have a valve stick - i think, not sure he still rook it) - i actually uttered those timeless words, "it's never done that before". Mostly good for the time...had a morris oxford which was fine, wolseley landcrab i killed the torque converter, a montego - despatched from factory with fan unplugged - my brother found that out the hard way... but newer ones qc was much better.... i always liked the sd1, shame not more about. ..
 
#33 ·
Lots were crashed at MIRA. They used V8 SD1's to test crash barriers..

Big Granada's also.
 
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