23 replies to this topic

[onj]

Hi

BACKGROUND:

I finally replaced the high pressure pump.  Not as hard as I thought it would be but anyway.  The car's been standing for a while so the battery needed a charge.
I primed the filter by sucking fuel through.  All cables etc are back where they started.  
On cranking, it usually starts, then runs for 3-5 seconds then cuts out with the coil light flashing.

DTC'S:

Number   P1000
Type Powertrain - Manufacturer Controlled DTC - Manufacturer Controlled
Description OBD II Monitor Testing Not Complete Conditions
Cause Key on or engine running, this code is set when a PCM Reset is performed and then one or more of the OBD II Main Monitors have not been completed It should be cleared from the PCM to pass an I/M Test for registration

Number   P2288
Type Powertrain - Fuel and Air Metering and Auxiliary Emission Controls - ISO/SAE Controlled
Description Injector Control Pressure Too High

Number   P0191
Type Powertrain - Fuel and Air Metering - ISO/SAE Controlled
Description Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Performance Conditions
Cause Engine running, then the PCM detected that the FRP sensor signal was more than 85 psi [138 kPa] or less than 20 psi [138 kPa] during the self-test

Sometimes instead of P0191 I get P1211 which is another vague rail pressure one.

There's also a series of 3 whirrs after the engine cuts out like a servo activating, I can't tell where though.

TRIED:

I've taken the leakoff tubes to see how much comes out, and on cranking there's a small well of fuel around each injector but engine wont start at all.

Disconnecting rail pressure sensor doesnt work either.

DTC's dont seem to want to clear with my FORmiDable.  I didnt see any point in recoding the injectors, they seem to be recognised.

Lots of white smoke when it does run.  Sounds like cyl's are knocking quite bad, worse at first and much less noticable now (I assume this was air going through).

QUESTION:

In short, are my injectors knackered (I know they can be taken out by the pump), do I have air in the system, do I need to reset/recode/bleed something?

Many Thanks

Onj

[graemewelch]

most likly to be knackered injectors, if the pump has been replaced you realy should of had the fuel checked for metal particles. if theres any in the fuel then itll knacker the pump again

[guffer]

What went with the old pump? As Graeme says, any swarf will not do it any good.
It could also be the fuel rail pressure sensor itself, or  I think there is an IMV (Inlet Metering Valve) on the back of the pump itself, which might be faulty itself

[onj]

Old pump just failed, no bang, pop or anything exciting.  Engine just cut out on deceleration.

I have time but not money, so it's been off the road for a bit while I do things cheap as poss or scrap it for whatever I can get for it.

I drained all the pipework, but I suspect that any swarf from the pump imploding would have already made it to the injectors when it failed, so not particularly interested in spending however much it costs to get the Sainsburys fuel in the tank checked out - likely a red herring.

Leading up to the failure I have a gut feeling something was on its way out (over many tanks of fuel), as performance had slowly and steadily started to drop - not to very rough engine conditions just that the edge had gone from the engine, idle was a bit lumpy etc.  Perhaps injector(s) had blocked and put stress on the pump, I don't know.  I do know old pump was dead, new one seems to do something, and it cost me a LOT less than 1000 for tools, filter and pump!

Cheers
onj

[onj]

Just to add, I plan to do a few tests when I get time:

A proper leak off test.
Check the FRP reading.
Check the FRP with brown connector disconnected for 5 seconds (where it should be > 1000)

Hopefully should give more insight, but tbh I'm thinking it's new injector time.

Cheers
onj

[onj]

The thing I'm still thinking about is why it will run almost fine for 5 seconds then cut out - surely if the injectors were fubar then it would be really rough?

Ideas welcome.  Going to look at data this w/e.

Cheers
onj

[onj]

Just to keep this up to date for future reference..

Tested the Fuel Rail Pressure today, it climbs until 1800 (1-5 seconds) then the engine cuts out and coil light flashes.

While the engine is running there is the knocking sound which seems to be classic injector problem.  

Oh and there's not a noticable amount of white smoke out of the exhaust anymore - it was probably just crap that dripped into the cyl.

I think I have 1 or 2 blocked up injectors but no fault code telling me, and I've no idea which or how to test...  Not sure what to do now!

I might try the obvious things like checking brown connector on pump is connected tomorrow.

Why can't injectors be like washer sprayers, i.e. when they get blocked you just stick a pin in them?

Cheers,
onj

[guffer]

1800? Is that bar or PSI? Makes a big difference.

[onj]

bar

[guffer]

When it starts it should show something like 300 bar of pressure. The 1800 should show pretty quickly if you stamp on the loud pedal and drop right back down again as soon as you take your foot off.
The fuel rail pressure sensor could be duff if you were using a handheld scanner to read the pressure. Dont suppose you have any means to read the pressure without the sensor in the fuel rail?

[onj]

Nope, it just climbs straight to 1800 and cuts out with flashing coil light.

I doubt it's the FRP sensor as I *know* the pump was duff and suspect it's unlikely to have taken out the sensor with it.  There was actually shards of brass in the fuel filter.

Bring back TD engines.

[guffer]

Shouldn't be like that. Should get some pressure 100 bar plus as you crank then 300 odd bar.
I'd put it to crud damaging the rail pressure sensor - which would give you a false pressure reading and cause the ecu to shut the engine down due to the dangerous pressures, or possibly some swarf getting wedged in the inlet metering valve on the back of the pump and feeding way to much fuel through, and again causing the ECU to shut the engine down.
If you've got the old pump you try try the IMV from that. They have been known to fail

[winterheating]

fuel pressure should always be over 1050 bar on a tdci.
the injectors will fire for a couple of times then stop thats why fuel pressure goes to 1800bar and cuts out after a few seconds, cos injectors stop firing.

[b1gdave1]

having the same problems when i start the car runs fine 5 or 10 seconds then cuts out first time it happen got the codes read auto spark said key not read so thought get my second key doing the same thing after messing around with egr valve wicth caused problems before car started drove it for about 5 mile turned it off came back about a hour later bank same thing happen again run for 5 seconds cuts out thought egr valve got new one needed new one anyway still didnt start got it towed back home rang the auto spark he told me to disconnect the battery for a hour or so and try again so did that the started first go drove it for next day and half then the same thing happen again so disconnected the battery for two hours came back started it up drove it about again next day starting and stoping couple of times then when to asda same thing again disconnected battery for a hour still didnt start towed it home left it in the drive with no battery on for a day trid it again started but only run for 5 seconds so left the car there for 2 days waiting for a guy from ford to have a look couldnt get a code says he will come back with ford laptop so next day came out started car no problems drove the wee girl to school and back left in in drive runinng for half a hour no problems went to work came home started up first go so thought will take it to tesco got t tesco perfect came out of tesco started up drove out onto main road cuts out towed it home again ford guy called back got a codes fuel pump and injectors but this was i replaced fuel filter and camshaft sensor check crank shaft sensor for metal filings that was ok any ideas its funny it started when the battery was disconnected

[salta]

onj, on 16 November 2009 - 07:51 PM, said:

Nope, it just climbs straight to 1800 and cuts out with flashing coil light.


I doubt it's the FRP sensor as I *know* the pump was duff and suspect it's unlikely to have taken out the sensor with it.  There was actually shards of brass in the fuel filter.


Bring back TD engines.

hi if you found particle s of metal of any kind in the filter you shuld never have run that new pump on the without .cleaning the tank the lines ..even the pressure rail and injector lines shuld be troroughly cleaned .. in fact if ford do this job or most reputable garges would insist on replacint the injectors and their lines and the tank .. its a job that cost a friend 1700 euro two years back here . this price included a new pump but also new pump gasket ..new lines .. new tank and complete blow out by air blast left on the air lines for thirty minutes to dry the lines and blast out any metal paritcles . its probably one of the worst things that can happen a durotorq . and why ford kept on fitting bosch pumps on ther motor s after the initial ones imploded is beyond most fair minded people who know about this problem which even had surfaced years before in the states on bosch pumps used in trucks etc etc/

[PURPLE_2L_LX]

What year is the car?

If the key is not read the engine wont crank over and the red LED in the clock will flash rapidly.

If the car is cranking over then its reading the key.

Without the fault codes it could be anything.

Had a new fuel filter recently?   If its a TDCI.  Only fit     A Bosch or Delphi one.  Ford filter is a Bosch one but nearly double the price.

Is the battery running down quickly when your cranking the engine?

Faulty battery or alternator can cause many issues with these cars.

[b1gdave1]

PURPLE_2L_LX, on 21 December 2011 - 03:46 AM, said:

What year is the car?

If the key is not read the engine wont crank over and the red LED in the clock will flash rapidly.

If the car is cranking over then its reading the key.

Without the fault codes it could be anything.

Had a new fuel filter recently?   If its a TDCI.  Only fit     A Bosch or Delphi one.  Ford filter is a Bosch one but nearly double the price.

Is the battery running down quickly when your cranking the engine?

Faulty battery or alternator can cause many issues with these cars.

  the car is 06 mondeo 2.2 tdci changed fuel filter after these problems and yes the battery is running down when cranking the engine over when it starts no battery light on or eml strange one

[PURPLE_2L_LX]

A weak battery will cause all sorts of issues on these cars, Sensors get supplied with the wrong voltage and give false
readings.

Need the fault codes reading, And make a note of them.  If you have a laptop an F-Super off ebay for less than £30 would be
worthwhile.

2006 car should be compatible with most handheld readers though,  Get one with live data if possible.


If it didnt read the key it wouldnt start, So i doubt the issue with it cutting out is that.

Need to check the voltage after the cars been standing overnight or for a few hours at least.

Then pop the headlights on to put a bit of drain on the battery,  Ignition on and off a couple of times. Checking the battery level.

Then switch all the electrics off and start the car.   Check the voltage. It may take a few seconds to stabilise.

Finally switch on the heated rear screen, Heater blower and the headlights. and check the voltage again.

Heated front screen and aircon should be off though.

[b1gdave1]

PURPLE_2L_LX, on 22 December 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

A weak battery will cause all sorts of issues on these cars, Sensors get supplied with the wrong voltage and give false
readings.

Need the fault codes reading, And make a note of them.  If you have a laptop an F-Super off ebay for less than £30 would be
worthwhile.

2006 car should be compatible with most handheld readers though,  Get one with live data if possible.


If it didnt read the key it wouldnt start, So i doubt the issue with it cutting out is that.

Need to check the voltage after the cars been standing overnight or for a few hours at least.

Then pop the headlights on to put a bit of drain on the battery,  Ignition on and off a couple of times. Checking the battery level.

Then switch all the electrics off and start the car.   Check the voltage. It may take a few seconds to stabilise.

Finally switch on the heated rear screen, Heater blower and the headlights. and check the voltage again.

Heated front screen and aircon should be off though.

                                 ok try all above voltage stays the same battery reads 11.8v and when you start the car and run the lights and heated rear sceen engine revs a tiny bit and battery reads about 13.5v even tried taking battery leads off and used a friends battery stil the same starts runs for a while cuts out idles perfect when it starts must be the pressure sensor or something if you leave it for a hour say it will run for about 10 seconds and if you leave it overnight it while start and run for about 30 seconds

[PURPLE_2L_LX]

Voltage is too low.  Should be 12.8 for a fully charged battery,   12.4  =  50% charged.  Below 12 is not good.

Should be 14+ with the engine running.  Even with rear, screen, lights and blower on.


Suspect the alternator is not working 100%,  Or the battery is causing issues with it.