19 replies to this topic

[spawn_e_git]

Hi.

Problem with 2003 (52) Mondeo TDCI 115.

If I put my foot down from a low-ish speed in a high gear, the car starts to accelerate and gets to about 2500 rpm and then a quick judder and then the glow plug light starts flashing.

Car run OK but with reduced power.

Switch the car off, wait ten seconds and start again and all is well.

The car drives perfect whilst the loght is off and is still very drivable when the light is on although with reduced power.

The fault codes were read by a local garage tonight and only three registered were

P0251 Injection Pump Fuel Metering Control "A" Malfunction (Cam/Rotor/Injector)

P1664 (not listed in Wiki)

P1665 (not listed in Wiki).

Any ideas what this could be?

The Autodata description told of Injector ECM wiring and to chekc the wiring but why only when under acceleration?

This page:

Here


States:

P1664 FIP (Fuel Injection Pump) malfunction (possible air ingress in low pressure fuel side)
P1665 FIP (Fuel Injection Pump) communication with PCM

Any ideas?

[barrie m]

when was fuel filter last changed? worth replacing anyway

check all connections etc

then a leak off test of injectors

if these prove all ok then try a new metering valve

[spawn_e_git]

EEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!

Just checked the service log and it was serviced at 95,430 miles November 2009.

The clock now shows 118K

I knew it was due for a service, I just didn;t realise I have done that many miles.

I'll change the filter and see if it still happens.

[spawn_e_git]

spawn_e_git, on 16 December 2010 - 09:31 PM, said:

EEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!

Just checked the service log and it was serviced at 95,430 miles November 2009.

The clock now shows 118K

I knew it was due for a service, I just didn;t realise I have done that many miles.

I'll change the filter and see if it still happens.

Changed the filter but still the same.

Looks like an expensive trip to the garage.....

[spawn_e_git]

Got the results back.

Excessive leak-off on all four injectors. One injector was leaking off 40mm in 30 seconds.

I had all four injectors reconditioned and guaranteed for a year, they also replaced the leak-off pipe system as this was split and leaking diesel over the rocker cover.

£904.70 inc VAT.

Looks like I'll be getting rid of within the next year.

Car drives so much better now though, no black smoke under acceleration, smotther idling.

Just waiting for the next expensive part to fail on this heap.....

After having the DMF go in October and now this, I think I'l' steer clear of Ford from now on.

[PSNI Mondeo]

spawn_e_git, on 10 January 2011 - 08:16 AM, said:

Just waiting for the next expensive part to fail on this heap.....
After having the DMF go in October and now this, I think I'l' steer clear of Ford from now on.

Your last two sentences made my blood boil.

I think i will defend the Mondeo and Ford...................You let it run for 23 thousand miles!! with no service - maybe you should of looked after it  

In 23k my car would of had 3 services whereas yours had none.  

Cars love new oil and filters, treat it well and it will treat you well.

6 month/8 k service shedules are a must for any car enthusiast with the best parts. The cost of broken parts far out weight the servicing.

Have you looked into getting a Vauxhall Vectra?  

[spawn_e_git]

PSNI Mondeo, on 10 January 2011 - 08:55 AM, said:

Your last two sentences made my blood boil.

I think i will defend the Mondeo and Ford...................You let it run for 23 thousand miles!! with no service - maybe you should of looked after it  

In 23k my car would of had 3 services whereas yours had none.  

Cars love new oil and filters, treat it well and it will treat you well.

6 month/8 k service shedules are a must for any car enthusiast with the best parts. The cost of broken parts far out weight the servicing.

Have you looked into getting a Vauxhall Vectra?  

Well let your blood bouil my son. Boil away.

I did not realise I had done that many miles. I travel alot with my job and the last year did not do so much flying overseas so I clocked the miles going back and forth to the office.

I am not a car enthusiast, just someone who needs a reliable car to get to work and back.

What would servicing have done to stop the DMF failing?

What would it have done to stop the injectors considering the fuel pump is AFTER the fuel filter?

ford do not recommend 6K services but obviousdly you know best...........

[b_ellebaut]

Well, as it is after the fuel filter, an old filter won't filter as good as a new one, which allows partikels to go through, which will destroy your injectors as they try to push them through

[PSNI Mondeo]

Yeah what he said.  

Yeah well 8k suits me fine. Keeps new oil circulating nicely lubricating the componants and collecting harmful particles in my shiny new oil filter. The the fuel can flow freely throw the nice and clean fuel filter doing its job protecting the injectors and engine. No clogging, no issues.

Id have 8k over 23k anyday. Its a mistake which we all make but that was a big one.

Plus if i set my servicing distance lower if i over run my schedule i will catch on before 10k which is still below the recommended amount. No problems, no isues and a reliable car to get me to work.

Yes you made a mistake which i understand - too much work, busy, didnt realise how many miles you were doing ect Yeah thats fair enough but dont say i think i will stay clear of Ford, because of a mistake you made.

If you let any other car massivly over run its service im sure something will go wrong.  

Im not having a go at you personally as i dont know you so no need to get angry - i just have a problem with those two sentences Realise your mistake and move on. Be nice to your car. Give it some Castrol Magnatec and BP Ultimate and say sorry.   Maybe a wee wax on its manufacting Birthday  

[b_ellebaut]

PSNI Mondeo, on 10 January 2011 - 04:40 PM, said:

Yeah what he said.  

If i'm wrong. Tell me.

[PSNI Mondeo]

b_ellebaut, on 10 January 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

If i'm wrong. Tell me.

No your right. The falling bricks was for him  

[spawn_e_git]

A filter will block. It will not allow more through. The fuel pump is after the filter so any failings here will go straight to the injectors as there is nothing to stop it getting there. There is nothing to "push" them through as they are drawn by the pump and the metering valve will detect a restriction and put the car in limp mode.

PSN, I accept that I should not have let it go that far but nothing in a service, oil change, air filter or fuel filter would have stopped the DMF failing.

A filter will block over time and the flow through it will be restricted but to think that a filter will suddenly just let particles through because its clogged is pure fanatsy in my opinion.

[PSNI Mondeo]

Well consider that the fuel filter had more than twice as much fuel pass through it as is suppose to because of the big milage. So the filter would of mostly blocked up in places which would put the fuel through and even smaller area, forcing it through smaller gaps which means some parts of the filter could of seen 3 or 4 times the amount of fuel pass through it. Now when i object is constantly bombarded with a liquid it becomes less effective, creating small holes and gaps. Injectors only fail because of carbon build up and foreign objects, not by themselves despite what anybody thinks. So is it not possible that the fuel filter (the only thing protecting your injectors) didnt do it job because it was asked to do too many miles.

And im guessing if you had any other problems with the engine you would let it go. But remember this is not down to it being a crap car, it would be because it wasnt serviced properly.  

[b_ellebaut]

As the filter gets old, the filtering element gets worn out and let bigger partikels pass through. I it get clogged up, the pressure will increase ( as psni told) and will make even more partikels pass through.
As it is a common rail, this works under pressure given by the ECU. Pure physics: constant presure+ narrower passage way= more pressure, so it will push bigget partikels through which get stuck in the injector, or go through and give you damage...

[PSNI Mondeo]

Its not so much that particles will get stuck in the injectors as they would have to be pretty big to do that and the car would shut down anyway. Its more about tiny tiny bits flowing through them, damaging the control valves essential de-coding them causing rough running, smoke, poor ideling and bad fuel economy which is when you would of realised your injectors were fooked.

Regular fuel filter changes and high quality fuel are essential for maintaining the life of the injectors. There is no reason why they cannot last the entire life of the car, its just people put crap in their car and dont look after it properly.

[b_ellebaut]

Ok.
I just put a double dose of millers in my car and changr fuel filter every 7500 miles. Haven't had a poblem about smoking or rough running since.
So don't blame ford, don't blame us for explaining, and don't blame the mondeo. Just remember to look at the service shedule more often :-)

[PSNI Mondeo]

Good man    I just put a new fuel filter in today after talking about this   Third one within 12k  

Some may think that nuts but they are so cheap. Im banging out hundreds on modifications so a tiny new cheap filter is worth it. Plus i ran out of diesel a month or two back  which probably picked up some dirt and sludge and the cold weather cant of helped its intergrity so a new one seems like a good idea. Seems a bit quicker aswell but probably just me  

[salta]

spawn_e_git, on 16 December 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

Hi.

Problem with 2003 (52) Mondeo TDCI 115.

If I put my foot down from a low-ish speed in a high gear, the car starts to accelerate and gets to about 2500 rpm and then a quick judder and then the glow plug light starts flashing.

Car run OK but with reduced power.

Switch the car off, wait ten seconds and start again and all is well.

The car drives perfect whilst the loght is off and is still very drivable when the light is on although with reduced power.

The fault codes were read by a local garage tonight and only three registered were

P0251 Injection Pump Fuel Metering Control "A" Malfunction (Cam/Rotor/Injector)

P1664 (not listed in Wiki)

P1665 (not listed in Wiki).

Any ideas what this could be?

The Autodata description told of Injector ECM wiring and to chekc the wiring but why only when under acceleration?

This page:

Here


States:

P1664 FIP (Fuel Injection Pump) malfunction (possible air ingress in low pressure fuel side)
P1665 FIP (Fuel Injection Pump) communication with PCM

Any ideas?

ok the fault codes seem to point at a fuelling fault ...first basic thing is to fit a new ford .bosch .fuel filter ..then check the entire fuel system for leaks or contamination ..then i have a question .was that a local ford of delphi ..dealership who coderead the car because ford use dedicated test equipment when testing these mondeos properly and give you a readout on conclusion ..speculation on my behalf from herer on would be just that ..but i do suspect if the filter and air leak check dont come up with answers then your into more serious stuff like the injector pump metering ..of the injectors ..but you will need a proper diagnostic readout before you spend out more money..s

[spawn_e_git]

salta, on 13 January 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

ok the fault codes seem to point at a fuelling fault ...first basic thing is to fit a new ford .bosch .fuel filter ..then check the entire fuel system for leaks or contamination ..then i have a question .was that a local ford of delphi ..dealership who coderead the car because ford use dedicated test equipment when testing these mondeos properly and give you a readout on conclusion ..speculation on my behalf from herer on would be just that ..but i do suspect if the filter and air leak check dont come up with answers then your into more serious stuff like the injector pump metering ..of the injectors ..but you will need a proper diagnostic readout before you spend out more money..s

Already found the problem. All injectors needed reconditioning..............

[Blizzard_UK]

spawn_e_git, on 13 January 2011 - 09:31 PM, said:

Already found the problem. All injectors needed reconditioning..............

Don't say that.... not the injectors again?

I parked in town today and when I returned and started the Mondeo I had a flashing glow plug light and the old injector knocking back again.
When I got home I connected the Autoboss to the car and read off DTC P1664, Hmm. So I cleared the code and all seems well again.
Now I'm not suggesting that I've fixed it by clearing the code but more to the point that an intermittent fault has caused the code to be logged. The Autoboss suggested that it could be an electrical fault related to the fuel system.
So my thinking is the Metering valve connections or that other plug that's on the pump.

I'll let you know if I find anything but first it has to happen again before I start getting my tools out of the shed.