12 replies to this topic

[Field]

Hi first time on this site so apologies if I am getting this wrong in any way and feel free to advise.

My Kuga is 2010 but has the original 136 bhp which is a bit underpowered if you used to drive a 155 Derv Mondeo.

MPG is also just not up to todays prices, when running in 37 and now going down to 33 per gall of diesal. !

I once read about a Spider Intelligent tuning box which would increase both the above.

Anyone any ideas or thoughts ? Would fitting it invalidate the warranty I wonder? If fitting would improve things so much when both of these are such selling points then why doesnt Ford do similar before you buy ?

Thanks F

[52graphite]

Field, on 15 February 2011 - 11:32 AM, said:

If fitting would improve things so much when both of these are such selling points then why doesnt Ford do similar before you buy ?

You'll probably find that the remapped vehicle has worse emissions - good enough to get through your MoT test, but not good enough for homologation type approval. Also, engine performance is often matched to drivetrain capability: Ford will want all of its vehicles' transmissions to last through the warranty period, so they may choose not to liberate every last ounce of performance from the engine.

"Driveability" may also suffer: although the remapped vehicle might be more "perky", not all customers will appreciate that. Finally, the OEM calibration is intended to cover the full range of production tolerances, fuel qualities, customer driving styles etc etc.

[Field]

52graphite, on 15 February 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

You'll probably find that the remapped vehicle has worse emissions - good enough to get through your MoT test, but not good enough for homologation type approval. Also, engine performance is often matched to drivetrain capability: Ford will want all of its vehicles' transmissions to last through the warranty period, so they may choose not to liberate every last ounce of performance from the engine.

"Driveability" may also suffer: although the remapped vehicle might be more "perky", not all customers will appreciate that. Finally, the OEM calibration is intended to cover the full range of production tolerances, fuel qualities, customer driving styles etc etc.

Thanks everso for that trouble. Knew there must be a reason not to buy which tied in with reason for not fitted as standard.
Heartbreaker is the standard was missold me as the new 163 bhp but definately is the original 136. Ive been working on that issue on and off for 8 months with the dealer !

Regards F

[52graphite]

That's not necessarily a reason not to buy, just why the factory calibration is as it is. Best of luck with the dealer...

[RB2004]

Reason why its not tuned to its limit, is, as said for reliability, emissions - euro emissions regulations and road tax bands, fuel quality, and to satisfy the vast majority of what customers want.

ford have just released last year about 6 months ago though a 160bhp/163s version of the 2.0 TDCi engine though on the kuga, its a 2nd generation engine and has been extensively upgraded.. new turbo, new egr, new injectors and pump.. pressure has been increased on the fuel rail etc... a lot more refined.

add bluefin, and that will take it up to about 182bhp, change the airtec gen III which is about the best intercooler upgrade for the ST focus (ST and 2,0 TDCi intercoolers are identical on the focus).. add a K&N air filter and you can probably push 190bhp on the 163ps 2.0 engine... engine will go up to 200bhp before reliability starts dropping off.

the 136ps engine, if you DONT have a DPF its possible to get 170bhp out of it with nothing more than a good remap, but the limits are around 190bhp.. anything over that and the reliability of the injectors really drops off (they overheat) and cant get the diesel into the cylinders fast enough... this is why on the new 163ps engine they upgraded the injectors to more reliable injectors and increased the fuel pressure to get around those problems.

[Field]

RB2004, on 21 February 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Reason why its not tuned to its limit, is, as said for reliability, emissions - euro emissions regulations and road tax bands, fuel quality, and to satisfy the vast majority of what customers want.

ford have just released last year about 6 months ago though a 160bhp/163s version of the 2.0 TDCi engine though on the kuga, its a 2nd generation engine and has been extensively upgraded.. new turbo, new egr, new injectors and pump.. pressure has been increased on the fuel rail etc... a lot more refined.

add bluefin, and that will take it up to about 182bhp, change the airtec gen III which is about the best intercooler upgrade for the ST focus (ST and 2,0 TDCi intercoolers are identical on the focus).. add a K&N air filter and you can probably push 190bhp on the 163ps 2.0 engine... engine will go up to 200bhp before reliability starts dropping off.

the 136ps engine, if you DONT have a DPF its possible to get 170bhp out of it with nothing more than a good remap, but the limits are around 190bhp.. anything over that and the reliability of the injectors really drops off (they overheat) and cant get the diesel into the cylinders fast enough... this is why on the new 163ps engine they upgraded the injectors to more reliable injectors and increased the fuel pressure to get around those problems.

Thank you for that which is very interesting but I am quite out of my depth here. The vehicle should have been 163 bhp which may well have proved to be enough for my purposes until the lottery comes up at least. Dealer minimizes any difference between 136 bhp and what I should have had so it is really helpful to read the 163 is considerably more refined and upgraded.
Ford Custmer Services now telling me they cannot help either so very dissappointed in Ford as a lifelong customer considering his options.

F

[Nick]

What have you been charged for? A 163 or a 136? What is shown on the invoice?

[Field]

Monkeyra, on 22 February 2011 - 11:28 AM, said:

What have you been charged for? A 163 or a 136? What is shown on the invoice?

Its a long sad story i may well end up telling one day. Discounted but the order is definately 163 ( Etis also confirms only original first generation 136) to stop me cancelling the order.
Know anyone who does law of contract no win no fee?

[Nick]

I'm no lawyer, but if your invoice says one thing, and you've been given another, then surely Ford do not have a leg to stand on?
If your invoice says 136, and you've been charged for a 136, then pretty much tough. If your invoice says 163, then it doesn't matter what you've paid, you haven't received what you've paid for. That, at the end of the day, is a simple trade description act.

[Field]

Monkeyra, on 24 February 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm no lawyer, but if your invoice says one thing, and you've been given another, then surely Ford do not have a leg to stand on?
If your invoice says 136, and you've been charged for a 136, then pretty much tough. If your invoice says 163, then it doesn't matter what you've paid, you haven't received what you've paid for. That, at the end of the day, is a simple trade description act.

Yes Nick you would think so ( although I notice I have moved off topic here although its for the same reason I was considering performance) After long delays and legal obstructions I find I must now force the dealer ( Ford Customer Services wont get involved once Dealer took it to legal to protect himself) to do the right and reasonable thing. After a while though you get so sick of it you just feel like trading it in for a different marque. But not one to give up so I will have a think about your suggestion thank you
Regards F

[Nick]

Field, on 26 February 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:

Monkeyra, on 24 February 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm no lawyer, but if your invoice says one thing, and you've been given another, then surely Ford do not have a leg to stand on?
If your invoice says 136, and you've been charged for a 136, then pretty much tough. If your invoice says 163, then it doesn't matter what you've paid, you haven't received what you've paid for. That, at the end of the day, is a simple trade description act.

Yes Nick you would think so ( although I notice I have moved off topic here although its for the same reason I was considering performance) After long delays and legal obstructions I find I must now force the dealer ( Ford Customer Services wont get involved once Dealer took it to legal to protect himself) to do the right and reasonable thing. After a while though you get so sick of it you just feel like trading it in for a different marque. But not one to give up so I will have a think about your suggestion thank you
Regards F

Good luck, and keep us informed. This sounds like a very peculiar case!

[Field]

Monkeyra, on 14 March 2011 - 08:09 AM, said:

Field, on 26 February 2011 - 10:38 AM, said:

Monkeyra, on 24 February 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm no lawyer, but if your invoice says one thing, and you've been given another, then surely Ford do not have a leg to stand on?
If your invoice says 136, and you've been charged for a 136, then pretty much tough. If your invoice says 163, then it doesn't matter what you've paid, you haven't received what you've paid for. That, at the end of the day, is a simple trade description act.

Yes Nick you would think so ( although I notice I have moved off topic here although its for the same reason I was considering performance) After long delays and legal obstructions I find I must now force the dealer ( Ford Customer Services wont get involved once Dealer took it to legal to protect himself) to do the right and reasonable thing. After a while though you get so sick of it you just feel like trading it in for a different marque. But not one to give up so I will have a think about your suggestion thank you
Regards F

Good luck, and keep us informed. This sounds like a very peculiar case!

[Field]

Yes Nick peculiar is right.
Hope you and your ST are OK there in Hong Kong

Good news at last with the help of customer services and fair trading we are trading the vehicle in for the spec I ordered.
Its now on order and the one I have at the mo is having its Bridgestone unevenwear / noisy tyres replaced under warranty tomorrow
TSB 52 / 2010 strikes again ! Oh happy day
Take care