17 replies to this topic

[Duratec-Tom]

Hi All,
I'm new to the site and this is my first topic. I have a 2004 Mondeo LX (Automatic) with 2.0litre petrol Duratec HE engine. I bought the car in August last year and did not realise, at the time, that the MPG is not what it should be. At best on a long motorway run I've had 26mpg and around town this drops down to 18. Also, since January the car has developed a intermittent judder when coasting to a junction and also when under heavy load (climbing a hill at speed). However, this does not happen all the time.

I have changed the plugs, oil (twice), lambda (oxygen) sensor, fuel filter, air filter and gear box oil all of which has not helped. We have also removed the EGR valve and given this a clean. Has anyone got any other ideas which I have not thought of as this engine is driving me mad! (hence the name). No fault codes have been thrown up by the engine management system which is not much help either. I suspect the T-MAP sensor which I have ordered a replacement for but am unsure if this could have such a dramatic effect on the fuel economy.

Any help/ideas would be gratefully received.

[andy ghia x]

Duratec-Tom, on 03 May 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

Hi All,
I'm new to the site and this is my first topic. I have a 2004 Mondeo LX (Automatic) with 2.0litre petrol Duratec HE engine. I bought the car in August last year and did not realise, at the time, that the MPG is not what it should be. At best on a long motorway run I've had 26mpg and around town this drops down to 18. Also, since January the car has developed a intermittent judder when coasting to a junction and also when under heavy load (climbing a hill at speed). However, this does not happen all the time.

I have changed the plugs, oil (twice), lambda (oxygen) sensor, fuel filter, air filter and gear box oil all of which has not helped. We have also removed the EGR valve and given this a clean. Has anyone got any other ideas which I have not thought of as this engine is driving me mad! (hence the name). No fault codes have been thrown up by the engine management system which is not much help either. I suspect the T-MAP sensor which I have ordered a replacement for but am unsure if this could have such a dramatic effect on the fuel economy.

Any help/ideas would be gratefully received.

hi there

sounds like the coil pack is breaking down under load. does your obd2 code reader do 'live' data? if so, what is the long term fuel reading?

hth

[Duratec-Tom]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for commenting. I have read that it could be the coil pack but discounted this as it happens when you are coming to a junction with no load on the engine. Could it still be the pack and would this effect the economy? Also, I don't think its misfiring. The reader shows that the calculated engine load is always around 35% and sits at 45% when the engine is just ticking over, this seems high. I have not looked for the long term fuel economy but will check and see if I can find this out.

[4x416v]

Hi,

the judder is a missfire, this could be caused by the coil pack  / HT Leads (best to change this anyway try to find a similar car on ebay which is being broken and buy new leads) could well be that your maf is on it's way out, when a maf is going it will cause a missfire and drastically increase the fueling (runs rich) as a faulty maf increases fuel pressure to compensate for a lack of air  which it is not reading and hence over fueling.  Best way to make sure if your MAF is working or not is dissconnect it and drive the car around, if the car feels worse then you know its not the MAF, if it's no different the MAF will need replacing.  

HTH

[Duratec-Tom]

4x416v, on 03 May 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

Hi,

the judder is a missfire, this could be caused by the coil pack  / HT Leads (best to change this anyway try to find a similar car on ebay which is being broken and buy new leads) could well be that your maf is on it's way out, when a maf is going it will cause a missfire and drastically increase the fueling (runs rich) as a faulty maf increases fuel pressure to compensate for a lack of air  which it is not reading and hence over fueling.  Best way to make sure if your MAF is working or not is dissconnect it and drive the car around, if the car feels worse then you know its not the MAF, if it's no different the MAF will need replacing.  

HTH

Thanks for this, I will have a look for the coil pack. I looked for the MAF sensor as well but the duratec petrol engine doesn't have one. It uses a T-MAP sensor positioned in the inlet manifold. When I removed this it was covered with grime so I think this is worth replacing and have ordered a new one from Ford (£46.01). I can't help but think that the rubbish economy and judder are linked even though the judder started 3 months after I bought the car which has had the poor economy since I bought it.

[4x416v]

yes the missing and fuel economy are probably linked.  My Mk3 2.0 Duratec HE averages 33 MPG combined cycle, so it sounds like your's is overfueling.

[Duratec-Tom]

4x416v, on 03 May 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

yes the missing and fuel economy are probably linked.  My Mk3 2.0 Duratec HE averages 33 MPG combined cycle, so it sounds like your's is overfueling.

Just an update on the issue, replaced the T-MAP sensor and this has helped on long distance journeys MPG climbs rapidly to mid 30's however around town it still nose dives back to 22-23 mpg. I don't think this is right. Does this still point to the coil pack, I think it does. Also does anyone know where I can check the fuel pressure? There is supposed to be a valve close to the injectors in the engine however I cannot find this. Would it be in a different place for an auto?

Also, do you think it makes any difference if I bought a coil pack, and leads, that weren't Ford? I have read that a damaged coil pack can also damage the ECU and cause issues when you replace it. Is this true?

[stripe88]

the test port is the bit under the blue cap here (duratec HE)


if you dont release the pressure first use plenty of rags when you put the Gauge on/off,  a standard tyre gauge will do.

4 cylinder 1.8 2.0 380 kPa (3.8 bar 55 Psi) +/- 5% at idle and greater then 250 kPa (2.5 bar 37 Psi) after ten mins.

V6 2.5 450 kPa (4.5 bar 65 Psi) +/- 5% at idle and greater than 320 kPa (3.2 bar 46 Psi) after ten mins.


btw   whats your temperatures like on the dash display and  temp gauge, maby running rich/lean

[Duratec-Tom]

Hi, great picture thanks for this. My car does not have this valve! Do you think it could be somewhere else as I assume there must be one. 53 plate auto (2.0l).

Temperature gauge never goes above the midway point although code reader shows coolant temp as high as 220f when driving. I assume that this is normal as these engines do run hot?

[bumdump1]

I have 2.0 auto as well, my mpg is around 29 around town  Info says 26 - i dont do much motorway so i've never worked it out.

Auto's do use more over manuals!

[Duratec-Tom]

bumdump1, on 11 May 2011 - 02:01 PM, said:

I have 2.0 auto as well, my mpg is around 29 around town  Info says 26 - i dont do much motorway so i've never worked it out.

Auto's do use more over manuals!

Thanks for the response. I thought that it would be worse around town but this seems a bit much! Especially when you are getting 29.

[Lez]

Hi there,

Have a 2.0 auto also mine averages 24, had loads of ford autos cmax 2.0 auto averaged 22. During the cold winter mine went down to 18. Its a fat car with a dated auto box you will never get decent economy from it. I'd probably be more worried about the judder could well be the auto box a missfire usually throws up a fault code.

[Duratec-Tom]

Juast an update on my problem. Replaced the coil pack, as recommended, and this has solved the problem! Its a pleasure to drive again. I also reset the ECU as I had heard that this can cause issues with a new coil pack. Bought the part locally (not Ford) for £48 and leads for £22. So far no problems.

Thanks to all who gave advice.

[Duratec-Tom]

Juast an update on my problem. Replaced the coil pack, as recommended, and this has solved the problem! Its a pleasure to drive again. I also reset the ECU as I had heard that this can cause issues with a new coil pack. Bought the part locally (not Ford) for £48 and leads for £22. So far no problems.

Thanks to all who gave advice.

[marklx]

Hi tom.Just purchased our 2000 ghia x auto and had the same problem as yourself.Was gonna fit the coil pack n leads off our written off mk1 but whilst away at our caravan I took each plug lead off the coil pack and pushed them back home.Guess it could have been a backed off lead or dislodged one whilst cleaning up around the bay. Thanks for your help to save the headache of replacing loads to find the prob,these forums are really great way of finding out that your not the only one with the only car in the uk to have the problems.Cheers all. Before the clean up.

[CraigW]

@Tom, what mpg are you getting now? I average 35 if I drive like a nun. 'Normal' town driving gets more like 22.  Car has always been like that and seems smooth.

[indexx]

Quote

Just an update on the issue, replaced the T-MAP sensor and this has helped on long distance journeys MPG climbs rapidly to mid 30's however around town it still nose dives back to 22-23 mpg. I don't think this is right.

Here:

~ 33mpg on motorway
~ 27mpg in normal "city" use

2.0 liter duratec, automatic. I think it can't make any better...

[shorey]

Are the autos really that bad?
My manual does;
40mpg motorway only (ie long trip),
35mpg mixed and,
around 30 driving it like I stole it.

Seems a hell of a difference.