Ford Automobiles Forum banner

Titanium X Sport Foglight DRL

103K views 106 replies 30 participants last post by  PURPLE_2L_LX 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
EDIT: This is an information thread regarding High Power LED's fitted in the foglight of the Titanium X Sport model.

Fog light Posts have been merged here as the original "Philips W5W" thread had gone off topic and this project deserved its own thread.

Cheers Malford
Thank you Malford for a very interesting piece. You have gone to a lot of trouble.

Regarding front fog lights, what about putting LED's in there? As they are only on in poor weather, or dark nights, a boost there would be useful.

Without looking in the manual, are they H1's?
 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
We were hoping to do this on a Sports fog light Myfanwy

These are with a standard MK4 foglight, showing DRL only, DRL position and DRL with Fogs (to give you a light comparison)
 

Attachments

#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
Perhaps it may be possible to incorporate running lights in the spot lights so to speak. However the Police in the past, will pull you up if you drive around with just your spots on with sidelights. Perhaps with the arrival of LED running lights things might change. Anything that makes you more visible is a good ideal. In Italy, you have to drive with your headlights on 24/7. I gues if I lived there I would be looking at replacement bulbs that last longer.

Yes H7 bulbs I meant in the Mondeo headlight dipped beam, H1 fullbeam/corner and the not so popular HB4 for the spot/fog lights.

The Philips LED sidelights are a good idea as you need all the light you can get in a non xenon Mondeo. I will get some on Malfords recommendation. Thanks. I would not choose the directional driving lights again on a Ford/Mondeo because they seem to reduce light output.

Another Ford with a poor dipped beam in my experience was the Cougar.
 
#4 ·
The ones in the foglights were just to come on as DRL and you don't need foglights on. They would go off or dim, when side or dip beams were switched on like any DRL system. Just need a sports foglight to see how they could be fitted in.

Have you seen this link SIDE/DRL where a high brightness LED system is fitted in place of the sidelight and act as DRLs.

I think the lamps in the foglights ate H8 in Sports version and H11 in the standard.

The philips ones are using the right technology but if you look at the link below some people are not happy with the actual design.
W5W
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)

Attachments

#6 ·
I appreciate that we've moved slightly sideways with this thread, but this is a post I've put on the ST site.

Thanks to Malcolm for sending me the images of the rear of Sport foglight, which as he pointed out didn't really show a lot, so popped along to one of my local Motor factors after giving them a call to see if they had some MK4 Sports foglights in for me to have look at. They did. They saw me pull into the car park and of course saw my bright sidelights. I did a deal with one of the guys at his request, got a pair of MK4 Sports foglights for a side/DRL kit. I guess he bought the lights at staff discount.

Anyway, fitting decent LEDs into the Sports foglight is not going to be easy. The image Malcolm put up with the 5 LEDs is simple enough but there really isn't any light output from the low power 5mm LEDs. There are some other posts where again using low power 5mm LED others have fitted 12 LEDs and they too really aren't going to be seen except in the dark.

The post above where I have shown an example of hi power LEDs temporarily fitted to a MK4 standard Foglight, is the kind of light output you would expect.

The area where the LEDs are mounted on the Sports foglight is completely open to the elements. Using 5mm LEDs, there isn't much of an issue in preventing water ingress as the LED will fit neatly into a 5mm hole with perhaps some silicone sealer at the rear and the clear lens of the LED should survive a while until they become scratched. Fitting high power LEDs is different, mainly because the LEDs themselves don't have any durable lens that can survive the elements being blown at them from the front of the car, they need protecting somehow. Also unlike the 5mm LEDs at 10 pence each, decent LEDs as one LED or multiples to provide any meaningful light to give more than just 'effect' are going to cost tens of pounds for each side. The LED assemblies I have used in my system are over £10 each. Plus you need some kind of supply regulation and DRL switching. Yes it can be done and I'm going to have a go at it on the pair of lamps I have acquired, but sealing them from the elements is going to be interesting.

So in reality, its possibly better or cheaper to fit some kind existing manufactured DRL system, which Malcolm has demonstrated are available that may suit the Mk4. My only reservation for what its worth is that the Mk4 is still a current model and fitting DRL devices draws a poor comparison to the MK4.5 with DRLs and cheapens the look of the car. After all its not a hot hatch PUG is it, where anything may go, and I think the MK4 Mondeo is surely above fitting DRLs just for effect isn't it. That's one reason I opted for the side/DRL model.

I did see a MK4 come through our village last week with LEDs fitted in the lower grill and it looked, well it did!!
 
#7 ·
Totally agree with you 4titx, if its going to be done it needs to resemble OEM in both quality and functionality and enhance the MK4's styling.
Also, I contacted the guy who fitted the Nolden kit (above) and he said it was a pig of a job which involved cutting lamp so is not a straightforward job.
I look forward to seeing the sport fogs with your kit fitted
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well here is what it could look like. This is a MK4 sports fog lamp with 2 high power LEDs temporarily fitted in 2 of the recesses at the side of the fog lamp. It is possible to fit 3 LEDs and maybe 4 at a push. The main problem would be sealing the LED assemblies from the elements, though their heatsink is actually on the inside of the fog light.

The light output in these shots is slightly less than the light output I have in my final side/DRL option for fitting inside the headlight but using 1 LED.

BTW the foglight lamp is a 55W not a 35W
 

Attachments

#11 ·
I like the look of the 3 Led version looks discrete and oem when off, I see what you mean about trying to protect them from the elements though.

Should you suceed I would definately be up for a pair, this is one of the more interesting threads going (even if I don't understand it all!)

Keep up the good work fellas

Roger
 
#12 ·
Well I may have a go this weekend at building a couple of modules if I get chance to go to my suppliers in the morning before they close.

If my attempt at sealing them fails it will cost me £50, if it works I might have a pair of sports fogs complete with DRLs to get rid of as I'd rather have them in the headlight.

The idea will be that the owner will be able to fit these of course.
 
#13 ·
The 3 led version gets a big thumbs up from me too


A couple of questions for you:

1..Will it be a sealed module inserted into the foglight which involves completely removing the plastic insert and replacing with module.
2.. Or if individual leds will we have a choice of chrome or black mounting bezels
3.. Can we have just one controller to operate the drl's so if their is any failure then they both switch off instead of driving with just one side working, it would also speed up installation and reduce overall cost?
4... Can it come fitted with a manual override to switch them off in case of any over active rozzers.
5.. Will the modification involve sending you the fog lights and if so how long will it take to do the job.
6.. Will the light output be similar look to that of Mercedes/Porsche drl's

Great to see this work being done and thanks for looking into it for all us "Sport" owners
 
#14 ·
Thoughts so far.

1..Will it be a sealed module inserted into the foglight which involves completely removing the plastic insert and replacing with module.

Answer A sealed module that will fit in the ribbed area of the foglamp. Secured by 2 long studs into the back of the foglamp (nuts on the back). Three small holes required, 2 x 3mm holes for the studs and 4mm hole for the cable. The module will sit on and down the ribs in the recess. This may be the only bit I don't like but look at the close up of the image with the LEDs turned off.

2.. Or if individual LEDs will we have a choice of chrome or black mounting bezels.

Answer. No Bezels. The 5cm x 1.3cm x 1.5cm (approx) module will be black to blend with the mounting surface, with the LED lenses protruding similar to the image I posted.

3.. Can we have just one controller to operate the drl's so if their is any failure then they both switch off instead of driving with just one side working, it would also speed up installation and reduce overall cost?

Answer Each module will have built inside it its own regulator to remove any voltage fluctuations. Supply will be from a suitable ignition live via a single relay which will turn DRL off when side or dip beam is turned on.

4... Can it come fitted with a manual override to switch them off in case of any over active rozzers.

Answer Not sure you need this, but you can simply fit a switch in line with the ignition feed.

5.. Will the modification involve sending you the fog lights and if so how long will it take to do the job.

Answer No, if you can use a drill and put a hole in the right place, you should be fine. Oh and fit connectors to wires.

6.. Will the light output be similar look to that of Mercedes/Porsche drl's

Answer, hard to achieve the same light output level with just 3 hi power LEDs but you can see the comparison with the foglight lamp when on. A for appearance, it will be 3 separate LEDs that will be visible.

I hate to see lamps not used, so as an option I may even ad an extra wire to each module so that when the foglight comes on, it puts the DRL on too.

Let me play with it all first, may be uneconomical to make em.
 
#15 ·
Yes I like the 3 LED version. Will have one too.

My Philips LED 6000 arrived today and I have fitted them. I had only just put in new Osram Cool Blue sidelight bulbs and had not even taken the car out on the road with them, before I have replaced them with the LED's.

Well.................................what a difference. The Osrams compared to the new LED's looked like I had a couple of candles in the headlight unit. The Philips LED's are so bright and white!! Fantastic.

Thanks Malford for the idea.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yes thought so, just hope that even the sidelight doesn't annoy the guy in front when your in traffic. Mine give about 30 lumen in sidelight mode, and between 240 l and 320 l in DRL mode. If the Philips are 1W, they could be putting out about 100 lumens though I have seen a comment that the were actually only putting out about 40 l. The original 5W lamps is probably less than 10 l.

Oh I do park wih sidelights on.
 
#19 ·
Well here is a bit of a mock up with the MK4 standard foglamp before I try sealing the LEDs for a sports foglamp.

This is comparing the Side/DRL I have in the headlight (note Malcolm this is not the same model you tested and is approximately 3 times brighter).

A couple of shots in bright light, before one in bright sunlight with foglights on too.
 

Attachments

#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well here is the device with 3 LEDs

Looks awful when fitted though.

Ideal way is to offer the LEDs singularly through from the back. If it was done this way 4 LEDs could be fitted and come through in between the ribs but cost is going to be the issue as the ribbed area is not flat at the rear so the LEDs can not be mounted as a single device with 3 or 4 LEDs on, instead will be individual LEDs each with its own mounting.

On thing, you wont buy aftermarket DRLs like these though.
 

Attachments

#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well here is the device with 3 LEDs

Looks awful when fitted though.
Do you mean the ones in the pics look awful (you can't tell in the pics) and that you are seeking another way of fitting them? Still very interested in getting these and really appreciate your efforts so far.

Roger

Sorry, we cross posted, I see what you mean now.
 
#22 ·
Loving these 4titx and id be willing to buy a set when you start selling.
Will they come with wiring instructions or could you post a how-to on here?
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well to be honest, I thought they looked awful when fitted. Granted, the final design will have a shallower enclosure, the device is 50mm x 13mm wide and 15mm high but the final height would be about 10mm. Even then when put on the ribbed area of the foglight they will look added, but not as obvious as 'stuck on' DRLs granted.

If I make any there will only be a few prototypes as my attention span doesn't last long after designing projects, which I tend to pass on to someone else to build for me. So its the cost of manufacturing that's the problem and subsequently the price to sell makes then uncompetitive to off the shelf supposedly 'fit all cars' aftermarket. Of course mine are particularly bright and that's because the LEDs specified are designed to give hi output providing they are used in a specific way that will reduce/remove the risk of them going 'phut' after a couple of hours.

The 2 x 3 LED assemblies themselves cost £50 in parts only and you then require some kind of voltage or current regulation (crude or otherwise), plus control for turning DRL off when sidelight or dip beam come on, so we are now in the £80 plus. Plus a couple of hours for someone to assemble them after someone has ordered all the parts.

So while I may have whetting appetites by showing that it can be done, we hit a reality check.
 

Attachments

#27 ·
Looking forward to it, really is a shame about the sport fin location, looks like it was made for lights.
 
#28 ·
Any report MyFanwy on the W5W?

Regards sports foglight modifications, but here is an image of a possibility, and again it's not a simple bolt in/on solution. The LEDs would require potting/sealing in place once a hole had been made for them to slip into, this is because high power LEDs come in 3 parts, an LED, a choice of lens and then a heat sink to get rid of any substantial heat that's generated. The LEDs would be assembled individually with their own heat sink. Not too hard to make after initial design, but would be a so and so to fit I'm afraid.

If I thought there were a few hundred to make and OPs were willing to pay for Hi Power LEDs systems, I'd look at the option of making a mold to allow 4 LEDs mounted and potted onto a flat shaped plate, that would simply bolt into the shaped ribbed recess. Would be neat, but would be custom for the MK4 sports foglight, so no real market or limited market because there would be a limited number wanting DRLs and there will be some that want them but will compare the final cost of custom units to bolt on aftermarket and fit the latter even though they may not be particularly effective and look awful compared to the OEMs.

I know I'm an intense advocate of DRLs in the headlight, but at least the option can not be compared to any aftermarket option, and to be really critical, even though Fords fit them on the MK4.5 the fact they are so remote from the other lighting, makes them look like bolt ons to me and I find myself comparing them to other car makes. Are there any other manufacturers that have placed DRLs separate to other lighting so implicitly?

I'm not sure I'll try doing the mod in the following image to the Sports Fogs I have as I wont be fitting them to my car.
 

Attachments

#31 ·
That sport fog looks the dogs dangly bits, I would defo have a set, I'd even pay you to fit them!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top