15 replies to this topic

[bowlesy25]

Hi guys I'm getting bored of the st24 now and want something to play with ! I'm set on dropping a bigger lump into a smaller ford escort/fes . But I'm unsure which engine would respond better to tuning or if there would be any difference at all ?

[siruncle]

they say the blacktop is better refined and smoother, and it also is fitted (tweaked) with early focus st's. They also use blacktops quite a lot in westfields

[4x416v]

both engines are similar, the silvertop is a tad cheaper to tune like for like as there are slighly more items about but give the same results, you will find more tuning items on ebay for the silvertop, both engines were used in Westfields and Caterhams, both being replaced by the Duratec HE 2.0 unit.  For not much more you could buy a Focus St170 Duratec lump, which is basically a tuned Blacktop with variable cams and timing, but this engine has limits of tune.  If money was no object the Duratec HE engine in N/A or supercharged form is the best in terms of sheer results, but realistically the Zetec S/top or B/top will see the most bang for your buck and have more accessible options, such as TB's, Turbo, supercharged if you can find one.

All the above are good choice's you can still buy 'new' crated Blacktops though.

[bowlesy25]

Cheers guys ������
I didn't think there was much in it personally but thought best to ask ! My heads hurting  from all the reading I've been doin on the other forums and I'm sure I've read the wiring looms different on the later models with the bt's in to the older models with the st's . Reason I ask is we are movin house and I've now got a out building to call my own ������so plans are to source an engine first for modifying then a car to put it in lata .

[4x416v]

yes the looms are different. It depends on budget really, a second hand 2.0 silvertop can be sorced for £200 ish, a Blacktop maybe a little more, but like I say you can get a new 2.0 Blacktop (crate engine) for around £699, for peace of mind has got to be a good thing, plus there will always be parts available for either block.  

out of interest what plans do you have for the engine?, maybe that will make it esier to decide.

[siruncle]

4x416v, on 13 February 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

yes the looms are different. It depends on budget really, a second hand 2.0 silvertop can be sorced for £200 ish, a Blacktop maybe a little more, but like I say you can get a new 2.0 Blacktop (crate engine) for around £699, for peace of mind has got to be a good thing, plus there will always be parts available for either block.  

out of interest what plans do you have for the engine?, maybe that will make it esier to decide.

the sensors are there on the blacktop, and any different connectors can be replaced with silvertop connectors, some will be the same. some of the blacktops didn't have an egr, and some have only one temperature sensor (not 2), but if fitting into a silvertop ecu car, there are some blacktops with 2 sensors, and iirc they are the same.

[bowlesy25]

I'm planning on dropping it in a escort (mk4/5) or fes(mk3/4) and I agree buying new would be easier but I wanna have a play with it really for experience I'm thinking n/a route with the air/fuel in and out as freely as poss and lightened and balanced  .  I wanna go turbo route at some point but that's a long long way off and would probably be another engine altogether !
From what I read on other forums the st seems to be easier to do the conversion with so it'll prob be one of those

[siruncle]

bowlesy25, on 13 February 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

I'm planning on dropping it in a escort (mk4/5) or fes(mk3/4) and I agree buying new would be easier but I wanna have a play with it really for experience I'm thinking n/a route with the air/fuel in and out as freely as poss and lightened and balanced  .  I wanna go turbo route at some point but that's a long long way off and would probably be another engine altogether !
From what I read on other forums the st seems to be easier to do the conversion with so it'll prob be one of those

if you fit to a pre 1992 (ish) car, you won't need to worry about cat and emissions so much, and can fit some fat carbs to it. Someone has managed to get a distributor running of a camshaft, (not on here) then you won't need much of an ecu.

[bowlesy25]

Well I nearly bought a mk4 escort van the other week with a 1.8 zetec already fitted so all I would have had to do is drop it in a swap the ecu but this drama with the house move put a stop to that :/ if I went throttle body route would a piggy back (unichip) run off the standard ecu or would it need somat like mega squirt ?

[siruncle]

i saw a ka with a zetec 2.0 in it last year...

though there is a ka with an omega v6 3.0 and a boot - turbo...

[bowlesy25]

Love that !
Played the vid without turnin down the volume and brought back memories of fitting the headers to my st
Theres a few been done from what I've been told some say u need to cut out part of the engine bay while others have got round it . I don't think any have pas though .

[4x416v]

buy a mk3 Fez, drop in a 2.0 zetec and run it on TB's, use standalone management such as Megasquirt / Omex or other, go for some uprated cams such as Cat cams, or Piper, fit uprated stainless exhaust manifold, a stainless exhaust system and once you have that lot take it for a remap, you could be pushing out around 195 BHP in such a light chassis would be very quick indeed.  There is a bit more scope with that set up too, but it would start to get expensive, after that sell your set up and drop in a turbo charged zetec engine. And you will have a lot more potential and options of tune, 300BHP is easily achievable, again in a mk3 Fez thats gonna move! (maybe too quick for some)

[bowlesy25]

Very true ! Had my st24 on the rollers yesterday and got talking about my plans and have been given some more food for thought ! A standard silver top with proper exhaust /induction running  omex management will put out around 160bhp ......
That came from the tuners mouth as well :s plus the price he quoted for the fitting and set up was a nice surprise

[4x416v]

yes sounds about right to me, and if the price is good, happy days.  160 bhp will again be pretty nippy in a mk3 fez.

[siruncle]

have you had a look at the what the westfield/caterham lads are upto with theirs?

[bowlesy25]

I've had a nosey and what I've seen they are all running throttle bodies or some are now going duratec route ( only a quick nosey mind !) am I right in thinking the mk3 fes uses the same  box as the mk6 escort (ib5) Im sure the rs1800 was a mtx75 one