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1.6 tdci injector seal leak


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#1 blackd

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:00 PM

Hi hopefully someone will have this detail. x

Injector 3 & 4 seal leak normal small amount of black death all cleaned up. Copper seal replaced on both and reconnected. 3 now ok 4 still not sealed even after a really good clean up. I did tighten 4 up very tight (not torqued) perhaps i bent seal?

questions if someone can answer:-

1) what is the torque setting for the clamp nuts
2) would you replace copper seal , rubber seal at injector 'hole' entrance and the plastic band on the injector itself.

I have read that sometimes the injector seat in the head has to be homed ? to get a really good seat for the washer. I have looked and after cleaning it looked very good?

Lastly I did try to remove the rubber washer at the injector entrance on the cyl head and could not work out how to remove old - anyone know..

As this obviously creates nice fumes in the cabin I would be extremely grateful to somone who can answer these points i have rasied as soon as poss..Ford obvioulsy will not help with detail they just want car and approx 450 - 700 pound!!

#2 paulgr

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:19 PM

Hi David,
I had/have the same issue - injector #1. Car smelt of fumes everytime I stopped the vehicle. Appartently very common on these engines. The issue is that if the blow by has been occuring for a while then the seat head is damaged in the engine block. A new copper seal will help but not completely solve the issue. What you need to do is to cut the seat in the head block. You need to get a 17mm flat cutter for this - its a Peugout/Ford tool size (same engine). If you buy the tool you are looking at 90 pounds odd, but you can hire from uniteddiesiel. They offer a hire set for 15 days for about £30. I plan to do this at some point. The only thing to be careful is to minimise the amount of cut aluminimum dropping into the engine when your cutting the new seat. Suggestions seem to be to get a 1/4" pipe on a vacuum cleaner so you can clean out the head as its quite deep.

The torque setting is really low - 5Nm if I remember correctly, so they are really only just nipped up. The difficult part was getting the injector out of the head as it was really stuck. Regarding the other rubber seals, I could not see that these do alot to be honest, except hold the inkjector true against the head.

A garage did advise me that you need to be careful as the injectors can get damaged when you remove them (twisting force etc) and you can only buy them as a set of 4 at a price of nearly 250 pounds each. They werent exactly 100% sure it was this engine, but have had issues with this.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

Best Regards, Paul.

#3 blackd

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:27 PM

Paul thanks secret to get injectors out is first use oven cleaner (mr m) keep in the well not on other areas then hose off gently finally a little wd40 on injector and very small gentle side ti sde moves and slowly it moves.then I used meths to clean everywhere.
Ok cheers for the torque setting I wonder if by over tightennig I have warped the washr and this the prob as I liied at the seat and it was imaculate.

Do you use copper grease or anything on the washer to aid seal??

Thanks for all the reseat detail - priceless and I may need but the seat looks really good?

#4 blackd

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:38 PM

Paul forgot to mention the only part of the injector which is fragile is the crystal nib / tip you can manhandle the injector esily without worry BUT making sure to not even breatch on the tip and be ultra careful when slipping the new copper washer on..

#5 paulgr

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:16 PM

Hi David,

They recommend not to use any grease etc. My thoughts are that if this gets on the orifice then there could be issues. I think that the orifice is about 20um in diameter.

Thanks for the tips and hints on the injector cleaning / handling - I did not touch the end.

The seat may well look good, but I guess it only needs to be out but a fraction of a mm and this will leak air past as the pressures are fairly high. The garages I spoke with all seem to have the tools and cutting is normal practice. Its is hard to see as the injector seat is about 10cm into the engine.

Best Regards, Paul.

#6 blackd

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:24 PM

OK no worries I have seen this tool online now for under £50 - I am really concerned about how tight I did these as its way way over 5Nm I seriously believe I may have warper the washer as i went as tight as I could :( i will try this first then if no joy perform a re-seat.

#7 blackd

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:55 AM

Has anyone performed a re-seat I know this is common practise in the garage BUT recommendation is that it is performed with the head off !!! - is there a sure way of stopping any burr from falling into the cylinder - sykes seems to be the best / most reliable re-surfacer is there a recommended lube for this which catches the burr?? maybe....

#8 paulgr

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 05:04 PM

Hi,

This was my concern as well with debris dropping into the cyclinder, hence I read the recommendation to hoover out afterwards, but some may still drop in. The Merc one seems to offer a dummy cap (fits where the injector tippokes through the head) that is inserted into the head first, then the seat is cut, then hoover out and finally remove the dummpy cap. Not sure this is the same on the Ford one.

The hire vs buy option. I had seen the 50 quid ones, but thought that hiring a more expensive set might be better. Then there is always the thought of what happens if another injector seal goes....

Let us know how you get on.

Best Regards
Paul.

#9 blackd

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:43 AM

OK didn't use sykes re-seater took out injector thoroughly cleaned seal break was between washer and injector NOT washer to cyl head. Used new stanley blade carefully on injector near tip to remove carbon off area where copper seal sits looked clean before but it was not !! then cleaned injector cyclinder with baby wipes duncked in meths then wrapped around a 10inch piece of copper pipe this cleaned beautifully and doubled up as a hoover attachment to clean out the crud.A useful trick when all back together is using a small amount of water / washing up liquid give a good shake a gently poor aorund fixed injector as it shows up leaks. I did injector up gently then tightened a little more until the leak had stopped. Do not overtighten this is what killed my first washers. I say washers as number 4 injector is now good (touch wood) BUT now can hear / smell number 3 needs doing again. The hoover and copper pipe /baby wipes is a must as you have to really clean that cyclinder seat up like a mirror.

#10 blackd

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:53 AM

ok its been a couple of weeks now and after doing number three all seems well at last. I have one last issue with number three fuel connection leaking (tiny amount) around the connection to injector re-seated twice and it has just started dribbling again. May have to replace this if i cannot stop it shame after so much achieived. I wish there was a trick to getting these to seal properly. No 4 connection fine..




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