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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

My Mondeo 2.2 TDCI 175PS from 2010 is giving me "Engine Malfunction", Primarily when deaccelerating. It comes and goes.

Info from FORScan

Code: P2297 - O2 Sensor Out of Range During Deceleration Bank 1, Sensor 1

Additional Fault Symptom:
- Signal Amplitude Less Than Minimum

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module

Freeze Frame :
-GLOBTIM: 138893446 sec - Global real time
-TOTDIST: 219603.0 km - Total Distance
-MAINECUV: 14.00 Volt - Main ECU voltage supply
-ESTSERUN: No - Engine status - engine running
-ESTSECRK: No - Engine status - engine in crank
-INCARTMP: 5 °C - In car temperature
-OUTTMP: 1 °C - External Temperature From Sensor

I have tried to change the front O2 sensor to a brand new one, but it didn't change much.

The car is running fine.

Any ideas where to look next?

Thanks.
 

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When you say tried to change, did you manage it or not?, the sensor you need to change is the one on the exhaust between the cat and the DPF, if you did change it did you do a relearn afterwards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
When you say tried to change, did you manage it or not?, the sensor you need to change is the one on the exhaust between the cat and the DPF, if you did change it did you do a relearn afterwards,
I did change it, sadly with almost no difference. Picture attached.

s-l500.jpg
 

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Hi if you have changed the sensor the only two other possible causes are the throttle potentiometer or the throttle housing, depending on milage the throttle pedals are prone to failure as are the throttle bodies, over the 300,000 miles i ran my last cab over i had to replace both items.

It may well be the throttle body as the symptoms you describe are very similar, what happens is the butterfly inside wont close down quickly enough on deacelleration and allows it to run lean because of the extra air it shouldn't have this throws up a sensor code, in my case i cleaned up the body and carefully removed the tin cover from the gearbox on the side and low and behold there it was, the butterfly drive gears are made of nylon and had a couple of the butterfly gear reciprocating teeth missing thats why it can't find its correct position on deaccelleration, i put it back together until i could get a new one.

The throttle pedal potentiometer normally throws up a code for low amplitude on circuit A or B you can test the amplitude rises on forscan live data and if there is more than 5% difference between the two its the pedal thats screwed, let us know what your investigations un earth :biggrin:
 

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Hello
I seem to be having the same problem with a Smax 2.2 175bhp 2009. Havent tried a new O2 sensor yet. Will keep an eye on this
All the best
Dylan
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just a quick update. The error actually disappeared after a while. Seemed that it had to "learn" the new sensor. At least that is my theory.
 

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Megger
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Mine has just started throwing this error, 2009 Titx Sport 2.2 with 101k on it. Squeaky bum time when your travelling at the legal limit on the M4 and up pops Engine Malfunction! Panic!

Whats the best sensor to buy, how much are they are are they difficult to change? Will also check out the pedal before taking the throttle body off, hoping the latter is easy!

Edit : To answer some of my own questions;

It looks as if the ebay prices range from £49.99 (unbranded) to £61.95 (Bosch) with the latter also available for a couple of quid cheaper. Eurocarparts had the Bosch up for £179.99 with GSF at £213 !!! This is before any discounts but I am not 100% sure they are all the same part.
 

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Megger
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OK getting a bit confused as to which is the correct one and where its located. I have found a diagram which I think is correct here. The lambda sensor I can see between the DPF and Cat (actually mounted on the DPF) is 12B591B (part no 1381181) and looks like this with a long needle like sensor i.e. not like the one pictured above.

The one pictured above comes from this auction or at least the pic did. However this looks more like the one stated as 9F472 the Hego Sensor (part no. 1746971). The pic on the diagram doesn't quite look like it but when searching for the part no. it does e.g. ebay link (although that doesn't state its compatible with a 2009 2.2). The diagram also doesn't show where it goes!

Won't be able to have a look at the car til the weekend but any advice would be appreciated. Wondering whether to prove its the right sensor is to disconnect it, start the car and then see what errors are logged or whether that's a bad thing to do. Also has anyone tried cleaning these as there is at least one youtube vid of putting one in an ultrasonic cleaner which implies its not broken just gummed up with soot.

Edit:

Looking at this I'm beginning to wonder if 12B591B is the downstream sensor (post cat, bank1, sensor2) with 9F472 being the upstream (pre cat, bank1, sensor1). However this contradicts what Bandit51 stated above and I still don't know where 9F472 is.
 

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Megger
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Found a previous post by Bandit51 here which describes how to change it and also the special socket to use which you can get from Halfords here
 

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Megger
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Hi, so managed to finally get under the car to investigate. Also Bandit51 confirmed in another thread;

The part number for the 2.2 mondeo is Ford 7G91-9D375-AA, more importantly its a Bosch unit and has their part number which is 0258017119, this was fitted on all models from 08-14, it was also fitted to many variants of Volvo diesels during those years as they used the same engines with modified emissions equipment.
Googling shows this is the 5 wire 22mm sensor as shown in the picture above and seems to be a fairly common and it fitted to multiple vehicles.

So having got under the car I took as few photos on what I think is the sensor which is embedded into the front of the DPF on the drivers side of the car (assume its the DPF looking at the previous diagrams). The one I found is actually a 2 wire, with a 12mm "nut" and a ~32cm cable (see pictures below). This doe seem to match the sensor on the diagram I linked to above;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ford-Focus-Mondeo-C-Max-Transit-Galaxy-Lambda-O2-Oxygen-Sensor-1381181-/162202096794

This is the diagram which I think shows the 22mm sensor floating and not where it actually goes. However I think I must have the wrong sensor and looking at Bandit51's instructions in another thread he states "remove metal turbo pipe underneath, separates at rubber unions, you will see it on the pipe between the cat and DPF". I didn't remove anything but couldn't see any other sensors in that area.

So it looks as if I'll have to get it back up on the ramps again! I also disconnected it and started the engine to see if it would flag any codes to determine whether it was the right sensor or not, it didn't flag any errors!

Sensor Position
https://photos.app.goo.gl/em5pNG39xdHzUsqZ2

Sensor Body
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VMnzTQupvE9r6Eh93

Connector - Connected
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6nGJC9AEpxzIHVRX2

Connector - Disconnected
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VinFddYJuwRsDfiI3
 

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Megger
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So sod this, about to put the car back up on ramps and I notice my new ramp extensions are bent (from their first use last weekend). So have decided it just not safe so will have to go to ford and have a discussion with their parts department. I also notice that ECP has only one O2 sensor (front) listed for my 2.2 but for a 2.0 there are two brand options for the front inc one from Bosch and one for the rear. So I'm still confused.
 

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Megger
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So finally had this fixed. Went to ford who basically stated it was 9F472 in the diagram and they wanted £254 inc VAT for it. So I found a branded Bosch one on ebay for £60 delivered and had it fitted for £60. It looked like it had been manufactured in 2016 and appeared to be lightly used. So not sure if it goes through a testing procedure or its some sort of return but I hope it keeps on working.

9F472 : Sensor Assy - Sensor - Hego <<< This was the right one
12B591B : Sensor - Catalyst Temperature : Sensor Assy - Lambda <<< Still a bit confused by this as I think it had been updated on the Ford system to just state it was a temperature sensor. Ebay searches on the part number state its either an O2 or temperature sensor.

Pictures : O2 Sensor 1 2 3 4 ... Last one if a bit rubbish but it gives you the shape of the connector and it has 6 pins, only 5 are used.

Ebay Link

Note that I still don't know where exactly located but I assume its where Bandit51 stated and definitely not the one in the DPF I previously showed photos of.
 
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Its on the exhaust between the cat and dpf you have to pull a couple of rubber hoses out of the way but its definitely there the wire going down to it is an easy way to locate it, the scorching on the sensor body is nothing to worry about it comes from the testing rig they use.

I am very pleased you managed to fix the problem at a far more modest tally than the other thieving monkeys wanted, well done thats it for the sensor for another 100k by which time the car may be a distant memory.
 

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Megger
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Hi Bandit51, thanks for this and your instructions on other threads. If this sensor was on top of the engine I'd have no problem getting to it. But due to it being under the car with bent ramp extensions, a pretty weedy trolley jack and not being as svelte as I once was this became a pig to do.

I have the feeling that if I hadn't done any research then my local independent would have defaulted to the Ford part (other supplier didn't have it listed on their system) and so it would have cost me £314 vs £120! So yes good savings there although I do wonder where these cheaper sensors come from as even ECP was expensive for this.

This would be a good thing to add to the Ford Wiki, is that still being updated?
 
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Hi Bandit51, thanks for this and your instructions on other threads. If this sensor was on top of the engine I'd have no problem getting to it. But due to it being under the car with bent ramp extensions, a pretty weedy trolley jack and not being as svelte as I once was this became a pig to do.

I have the feeling that if I hadn't done any research then my local independent would have defaulted to the Ford part (other supplier didn't have it listed on their system) and so it would have cost me £314 vs £120! So yes good savings there although I do wonder where these cheaper sensors come from as even ECP was expensive for this.

This would be a good thing to add to the Ford Wiki, is that still being updated?
The other sensors are probably ok but you cant fault the Bosch quality control, i don't think i have ever used one of their components thats been faulty or failed again in short order, some of the unbranded items may well have come from our oriental friends and i think we are all aware of their perspective on quality.

The Svelte bit makes me smile, i had to buy three ton high lift jack and cosgrove axle stands so i can drag my frame under the car without breathing out for most of the time, believe me we are all going that way, but the thing that stands us apart from others is despite age expansion we, armed with the right info will still have a go at fixing it ourselves.

As for the ford wiki i don't really know.
 

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Megger
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Hi Bandit51, thanks for this and your instructions on other threads. If this sensor was on top of the engine I'd have no problem getting to it. But due to it being under the car with bent ramp extensions, a pretty weedy trolley jack and not being as svelte as I once was this became a pig to do.

I have the feeling that if I hadn't done any research then my local independent would have defaulted to the Ford part (other supplier didn't have it listed on their system) and so it would have cost me £314 vs £120! So yes good savings there although I do wonder where these cheaper sensors come from as even ECP was expensive for this.

This would be a good thing to add to the Ford Wiki, is that still being updated?
The other sensors are probably ok but you cant fault the Bosch quality control, i don't think i have ever used one of their components thats been faulty or failed again in short order, some of the unbranded items may well have come from our oriental friends and i think we are all aware of their perspective on quality.
The Svelte bit makes me smile, i had to buy three ton high lift jack and cosgrove axle stands so i can drag my frame under the car without breathing out for most of the time, believe me we are all going that way, but the thing that stands us apart from others is despite age expansion we, armed with the right info will still have a go at fixing it ourselves.
As for the ford wiki i don't really know.
Think I'll be keeping an eye out for a deal on a decent jack as I need to do the rear pads and discs soon. Always try and fix stuff myself no matter what it is although there are times I have to concede defeat and get a pro in.

So I had a 3hr drive to Swansea last night and I have to say the car hasn't felt this good in ages. Really good acceleration and didn't miss a beat. I wonder if this sensor hasn't been right for a while despite being within tolerance. Although I had treated her to a tank of vpower so that also might have something to do with it.

Also managed to get forscan lite to monitor the pids for a dpf regen and I captured one. Will put up a graph of those at some point.
 

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Hi Bob the sensors wear and start going blind by about 80k and normally fail between 100-110k because you are driving it all the time you don't notice, just get a vague feeling i seem to remember it going better.

Another good shout is change the MAP/MAF sensors, they are on the top of the engine and although a bit pricey allied to the 02 sensor these will galvanise the performance and you will get your money back over time with better mpg and the non surgical smile you get every time you nail it.

The MAP/MAF start getting tired about 70k, have always changed mine at that and it still runs like a scalded cat at 209k.
 

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Megger
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Hi bandit, sounds interesting. I had replaced my maf sensor at probably 80k, maybe a bit earlier. This was in the hope it would fix my long crank sporadic issue, it didn't fix it. I'll have a look at the map sensor.

If I could just track down the long crank issue I might hold onto it a bit longer.
 

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Hi bandit, sounds interesting. I had replaced my maf sensor at probably 80k, maybe a bit earlier. This was in the hope it would fix my long crank sporadic issue, it didn't fix it. I'll have a look at the map sensor.

If I could just track down the long crank issue I might hold onto it a bit longer.
Hi Bob the intermittent cranking issue could well be the MAF these are fitted with two diodes one of them is the lower air path diode, if like mine did it starts to check out badly it causes excessive cranking and uneven idle, check also the rubber joint that connects the air box trunking to the turbine, these have a habit of developing small cracks/splits which can cause the same symptom.
 

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Megger
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Hi bandit, sounds interesting. I had replaced my maf sensor at probably 80k, maybe a bit earlier. This was in the hope it would fix my long crank sporadic issue, it didn't fix it. I'll have a look at the map sensor.

If I could just track down the long crank issue I might hold onto it a bit longer.
Hi Bob the intermittent cranking issue could well be the MAF these are fitted with two diodes one of them is the lower air path diode, if like mine did it starts to check out badly it causes excessive cranking and uneven idle, check also the rubber joint that connects the air box trunking to the turbine, these have a habit of developing small cracks/splits which can cause the same symptom.
I'll check the MAF sensor out over the weekend and see if there are any splits etc. It's intermittent which is partly the pain so you can't prove immediately whether you've fixed it or not. It also seems to come in batches these days where it will go for a couple of weeks of no issues and then it will be more frequent for the next couple of weeks .... but still intermittent within that period. Tempted to replace the o rings on various seals for the fuel filter and maybe the injector leak offs to make sure there is no air getting in there ... as that has been stated by some as a likely cause

The good news is, on the way back from Swansea yesterday, the car still performed great with the extra pep its had since the O2 sensor was changed and that was running on a tank of diesel from Tesco.
 
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