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Little Megger
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone had any problems associated with TDCI 130 engine not getting to temperature, or not holding temperature, that is not rectified by thermostat renewal, or gauge sender renewal? Engine is cool most of the time - heater tells me so, and thermostat renewal does not help. Any information on this type of thing would be appreciated. Thanks a lot.
 

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Couch Potato
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2,944 Posts
Mine doesn't reach normal temperature on my 3 mile commute to work, it gets about 1/3 way up the gauge, whereas it sits halfway on longer journeys. The weird thing is though, when I pull up at work and let it tick over, the gauge drops back down almost to the bottom. I let it tickover the same after my return journey when I got home and after dropping down, the gauge took 30 minutes ticking over to get back up to normal. When I'm driving the temp gets to normal after about 5 or 6 miles and the gauge then stays at normal even if left ticking over. I was beginning to suspect that the thermostat was not closing fully when cold. The heater is nice and warm BTW, even when the gauge is low.
 

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MEG Captain
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4,819 Posts
have a go at running the dasboard diagnostics and see what the dashboard says about engine water temp , sounds to me as if the there is a blockage of some kind ( unlikely ) or an air lock in the system :L
 

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Little Megger
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Paulyoung666,
So "dashboard diagnostics"! Now this is a new one on me. Sorry to sound stupid but is this a standard function? If so can you tell me how I can access it?
The water in the expansion tank is always cold, as is the top pipe over the radiator (which I replaced), though hot water is getting to the radiator.

Are there any other valves, components, or is temperature otherwise regulated (e.g. by the engine management system? I' getting absolutely rubbish MPGs too, that I'm sure are not as a result of hard acceleration, as the MPGs on the long trip to Manchester and back informed me.

A great way of heating the cabin is rapid acceleration.... OK for Milton Keynes roundabouts, but not a permanent solution.

Kithmo that's reassuring to know it is normal that it takes an age to heat up. I have a 17 mile journey and the temp goes with the amount of fuel I put in the engine...

Thanks for your replies,

LJR
 

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Just me
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19,673 Posts

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Little Megger
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Dansmondeo, so I need a specialist piece of kit to get the car to tell me if there's a fault, do I? I'm thinking it can only be a "plug in a computer" job - is there any other way? Cheers...
 

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Glen
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4,110 Posts
all you need to do is switch off the engine/ignition. press and hold the trip reset and start the engine, you will then see the guages sweep. keep pressing the button to scroll through the tests... a list of outputs is on here somewhere.
 

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Little Megger
Joined
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Had a look at dashboard diagnostics. What I assume to be the water temp readout begins at 40C, is at 71C at the quarter mark and doesn't go above 85 or so at the fully open position - i.e it corresponds with the gauge value (indeed the two may derive from the same signal). What I'd like to know is what is the diagnostic value one click after the water temp - is it oil temp? If so I'm in trouble - it tops off at 147C; if not, I'm a happier man...
 

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Couch Potato
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2,944 Posts
Been on a 160 mile round trip today 1/2 motorway at 70mph and 1/2 a-roads at 50-60mph. With dash diagnostics on engine temp. it started at 40C went to 88C and fluctuated between 85C and 88C all the way there and back (except one brief 90C on a long slightly uphill strecth of motorway). Checked expansion tank when I got home and it was stone cold and no pressure on releasing the cap, could this be normal ?
Good economy though, 56mpg average.
This is my first diesel and although I know they take longer to warm up and are more thermally efficient I would have thought that the expension tank should be hot after 160 miles.
Anybody know what temp the engine should run at, any other TDCi owners got a cold expansion tank.
 

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Little Megger
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That's good economy - all you need really, and what I bought a diesel for. I'm going to change the 'stat next week, again, see if I can get one that opens hotter. Still don't know what the value after the coolant temp is on the dash diagnostics.
 

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Couch Potato
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2,944 Posts
According to this taken from a previous post it's battery voltage after coolant temp

#.Test
#.Syntax Displayed
#.Gauge/Indicator/Display Tested
#.Description

#.1..Gauge sweep.
#.GAGE.
#.Tachometer, speedometer, temperature and fuel.
#.All gauges go through a full up and down pointer sweep smoothness check, which takes approximately 5 seconds.

#.2..Fill in all LCD.
#.8888.
#.LCD display built into Speedometer.
#.Fills in LCD display therefore seeing if display functioning correctly.

#.3..Indicator bulbs.
#.BULB.
#.Instrument cluster illuminates indicator and warning indicators.
#.Illuminates all the warning indicators that are controlled by the instrument cluster.

#.4..ROM level.
#.rXXX.
#.Instrument cluster read only memory (ROM).
#.Displays the instrument cluster ROM revision level.

#.5..NVM level.
#.EXXX.
#.Instrument cluster non volatile memory (NVM).
#.Displays the instrument cluster NVM revision.

#.6..DTC.
#.XXXX or NONE.
#.Diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs).
#.To list the DTCs stored, press the RESET button.
..REFER to the instrument cluster diagnostic trouble code (DTC) index below.
..The DTC codes will scroll through if there is more than one.

#.7..Road speed mph.
#.XXX.X.
#.Speedometer.
#.Displays the speed signal input in mph.

#.8..Road speed Km/h.
#.XXX.X.
#.Speedometer.
#Displays the speed signal input in Km/h.

#.9..Engine speed.
#.XXXX.
#.Tachometer.
#.Displays the tachometer input signal (RPM).

#.10..Fuel volume.
#.FXXX.
#.Fuel sender system.
#.Displays the fuel volume signal input.

#.11..Coolant Temp.
#.XXXC
#.Engine coolant temperature.
#.Displays the engine coolant temperature signal input.

#.12..Battery Voltage.
#.bXXX.
#.Battery Voltage (t).
#.Displays battery voltage input.

#.13..ABS fail.
#.Ab-[H/L].
#.ABS system.
#.Displays ABS raw cluster input. (H = open-circuit, L = ground).

#.14..Electronic Brake Distribution Failure (EBD).
#.Eb-[H/L].
#.EBD system.
#.Displays EBD raw cluster input. (H = open-circuit, L = ground).

#.15..Illumination.
#.IL-[H/L].
#.Cluster and instrument panel illumination.
#.Displays instrument cluster and instrument panel illumination. (H = ON, L = OFF).

#.16..Crank Sense.
#.Cr-[H/L].
#.Cluster and instrument panel crank sense.
#.Displays Cluster and instrument panel Crank sense. (H = Ignition, L = Ground or over-charging).
#.(Crank sense it the Pos I (Accessory) supply to the cluster. If this is missing then the cluster will remain dead for about 20 seconds after key on. Then it will function normally. This can happen when someone fits a radio and blows the accessory fuse).

Note:
Additional tests are available after number #.16 but are not useful for diagnostics.

Note:
Later vehicles had a "cost reduced" cluster that had a different Engineering Test Mode layout. These came in about 03-53 reg, and can be distinguished by only the symbol lighting up in the tell tale rather than the whole lot. (LEDs rather than bulbs).
These clusters used stepper motors for the gauges rather than the air cored ones and did not have a Gauge Sweep test?

Self ..........DTC.......... Description
Diagnostic
Mode
Displayed
DTC

9202 ..........B1202.......... Fuel pump module circuit open

9204 ..........B1204.......... Fuel pump module short to ground

9342 ..........B1342.......... Instrument Cluster ECU is defective

9317 ..........B1317.......... Battery voltage high (greater than 16V)

9318 ..........B1318.......... Battery voltage low (less than 10V)

9359 ..........B1359.......... Ignition Run/ACC circuit failure

A143 ..........B2143.......... NVM memory failure

A477 ..........B2477.......... Module configuration failure

D041 ..........U1041.......... Invalid data for vehicle speed

D027 ..........U1027.......... Invalid data for engine RPM

D073 ..........U1073.......... Invalid data for engine coolant

D262 ..........U1262.......... Missing speed, tacho, engine temp, or dometer count

D123 ..........U1123.......... Invalid data for odometer
 

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Little Megger
Joined
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
CHT would make more sense (it is an 03), though why put a sensor in if during most driving the sensor is not calibrated for the actual temperature range? Mine displays a value that correlates with the coolant temp (though higher), though during 70mph driving the sensor shoots up to 147C and no higher, i.e it is out of measurement range. UNLESS the head temp IS abnormally high and needs sorting. During town driving it reads 120 - 130C.

Excellent job finding the the DTC codes - I spent a long time looking to no avail.
 

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Little Megger
Joined
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Solution: I had a thermostat put in and the technician ran the car around with the engine diagnostics monitoring the coolant temperature directly, rather than through the dash diagnostics. The temp varied between 88 and 102 degrees, exactly as is printed on the new stat even though the gauge reading on the dash was varying between 1/4 and 1/2 (1/2 being the place it sits rock steady at if you push it). So the old stat was faulty, the gauge is sensitive, but the new thermostat is doing what it should. Hence I ignore the gauge now...
 

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TDDI Buff
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37,060 Posts
i dont think mibes faulty because i only have to drive 2 miles and put the heater on 2 and i can feel warm air coming through even in cold weather it does it, i dont like it that the temp guague tkes ages to even start moving, id drive half a mie up the road in my old TD and it moved
 

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Couch Potato
Joined
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2,944 Posts
Dealer had mine in under warranty and I had two new thermostats put in on tuesday (the second stat is on the waterpump, going to the oil cooler) and it's made no difference, I reckon it's a gauge problem, maybe the gauge is not as accurate when it (the gauge) is cold.
My Gendan diagnostic kit shows the same temp as the dash diagnostics.
 

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TDDI Buff
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37,060 Posts
yeah i dont like the way the gauge works i think its wrong even a new one.
 

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Couch Potato
Joined
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2,944 Posts
I tried an experiment on Saturday, Switched the heating (Climate control) off and the car was up to normal temp in 3.5 miles, outside temp was around 5 degrees. So it seems the heater is using up most of the heat generated by the engine when it's cold outside. I normally set the climate to 23C and it starts chucking warm air out within the first mile. I think I prefer the heat rather than a "normal" temp gauge needle so Que sera.
 

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Couch Potato
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2,944 Posts
kithmo said:
Dealer had mine in under warranty and I had two new thermostats put in on tuesday (the second stat is on the waterpump, going to the oil cooler) and it's made no difference, I reckon it's a gauge problem, maybe the gauge is not as accurate when it (the gauge) is cold.
My Gendan diagnostic kit shows the same temp as the dash diagnostics.
Since I had this done the gauge now reads even lower (until fully warmed) and the in diagnostic mode the coolant temp on the trip does too. I put the Gendan ELM 327 interface and laptop on and the temp now reads 13 deg C higher on the Gendan than it does on the trip and the gauge. My gauge has a 60C at about 1/4 of the way across the gauge face and 120C at 3/4 way across and when warmed up it sits halfway, which I guess is 90C. Today when I got home (only 3 miles and not fully warmed) the gauge was below the 60C and the trip, in diagnostocs mode, was reading 51C but with the Gendan hooked up to the laptop it was saying 64C. As I said in the previous post, the trip used to say the same as the Gendan, what have they done. I know they disconnected the battery when they worked on it, as the radio needed recoding and the back leccy windows needed re-calibrating. The Genden also told me when the last ECU reset was in miles (which ties up with when they had it). Also the mpg was down initially as the ECU was adjusting to my driving. i think I'll buy a bottom engine tray and see if that improves warm up.
 
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