Ford Automobiles Forum banner
21 - 40 of 133 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Changed the filter today. I made sure to prime it first by filling it with diesel and sucked all the air from the outlet port until fuel came out when it was installed aaand 0 change.
Literally the exact same priming and crank pressures on the rail. Sigh.

I did the non-start test (unplug brown pump plug and all injectors) and still identical pressures (6 bar on ignition, 30 on crank).
I was going to perform a leak-off test too, but my dad (who came down to lend a hand) reasoned that if there's no pressure difference with all the injector's electrics unplugged, it would mean that there's no point. I'm not sure I agree, but it was getting late...

It looks to me like the high-pressure pump has gone. I haven't cut open the old filter yet to check for forbidden glitter, but I don't see what else could have gone bang?
 

·
Little Megger
Joined
·
4,733 Posts
Look, just do the leakoff test. Don't ever jump to conclusions without empirical evidence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
You're right, I was foolish to skip that step for the sake of time-saving.

I just hooked up my leak-off test and cranked the engine (I don't know if you are supposed to remove any electrical connectors for a non-starting test so I only removed the leak-off pipes).
After 10 seconds of cranking on a failing battery, I managed to get about 10ml from cylinder 1 and lesser, but still quantifiable, amounts from my other three.

The fact it came p*ssing out at a slow, 10-second crank shows that it is well and truly buggered.
I'm going to charge up my battery tonight and run another test at the full 250 rpm cranking speed.

Also, I've cut open my old fuel filter of unknown age and I can't see any forbidden glitter in the housing or paper so far but I'll have a closer look with a magnet tonight.
In place of shavings, there was no small amount of brown sludge at the bottom of the housing and soaking the filter. gross.

I'll post an update tomorrow.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,294 Posts
Did you blank the leakoff pipes? If you didn't that allows air into the fuel system and it will
cause starting issues afterwards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Yeah I used the little white caps that came with the kit (seen in pic #1)
As you can see, even with my 10-second slow crank (battery was half flat) cylinder one was just pouring out fuel. The second I took the leak off the pipe and it came running out I knew I was going to have at least one fail.
I appreciate that it's a terrible photo and I'll get a better one soon.
Like I said i'm charging the battery up tonight so I can crank it at full speed tomorrow for better results.

Given your experience, can we deduce this is the likely cause of my woeful pressure?


Vehicle Hood Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design
Automotive lighting Ac adapter Audio equipment Font Gas
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,294 Posts
Just cranking I would have expected the fuel to travel an inch or 2 up the pipework not pump out
enough to measure.

Anything in the kit to blank the fuel rail or injector pipes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
This is the kit I have I don't think there is anything to blank the pipes? This is my first time using this so I can't say for certain.

Yeah considering you're supposed to rev it for minutes at a time and get less than what I'm getting just from cranking is pretty crazy.
It would explain why my pressure is so damn low to the point it cant even splutter let alone start and why it caused such violent misfirings seconds before leaving me stranded on the motorway.

To help back up the bugged injector idea, I had really poor idle and bottom end power in the days leading up to the breakdown.
Sat at lights, even with a warm engine, it would fluctuate constantly by 100/200 RPM and it would be super easy to stall. Even when facing downhill!
 

·
Little Megger
Joined
·
4,733 Posts
If you locate fuse F8 in tne fusebox next the battery, it's the LARGE yellow 60amp fuse, pull it out and you'll find the battery will last longer when you're cranking a non-starter.
Also, I'll find you the correct procedure for a non-starter leakoff test.... I had it somewhere... unless Purple beats me to it...:unsure:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Will do, I assume that's the glow plug fuse?

I didn't there is a separate procedure for a non-starting test. I had a quick google but only running cars would come up that I could see.
Given the horrendous amount of diesel from cyl#1 in my short test, clearly, something catastrophic has happened inside the injector? Enough to cut the car outright.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,294 Posts
Struggling to find the static leakoff test posts. Did find a thread where people were poking fun at my age and
preferring pop bottles to the leakoff kits. :)

Surely everyone has some whitworth sockets and spanners in their toolbox? You dont have to be old to
have those. :)
 

·
Little Megger
Joined
·
4,733 Posts
Sure sounds like it! From memory you should just see and measure a few cm of diesel in the pipes,. I'll do a search and post the link...

There's this one :
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Okay, just to make sure I understand, I take out all the electrical plugs that you would normally do for a pressure test (which yielded the same 30ish bar FRP compared to having everything normal by the way).
I should then suspend the bottles above the engine and measure the distance it travels up the clear pipe after 5 seconds. Correct?

A couple of points I'm not clear on, firstly 'connect the YDT266 containers to the injectors', is that just a fancy name for the bottles?
Secondly, I put a new filter in, filled it with diesel and applied a vacuum on the outlet to make sure it is full. But my banking caps don't feel particularly scug on the disconnected pipes. IF air was to enter the system, what's the best method for bleeding and how badly would it affect my test?

Thanks for the help!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,294 Posts
To bleed repeat what you did to ensure the filter is full of fuel, then with a nice fresh battery crank the engine
and get someone to crack open one injector feed pipe at a time until fuel sprays out.

This needs care because the pressures are high.

Maybe wrong but...
Air entering the system during the leakoff test should not affect the test initially but it will be hard to start afterwards?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I won't have a helping hand until the weekend, is it possible for fuel to force air out of the pipe at the 6-bars I get at the rail when the ignition is on? Assuming fuel is allowed to flow all the way to the injectors in this state.

I agree that it shouldn't affect my test results, given that there's no reason for my rail to be full of air in the first place (touch wood).

Going off this thread and Delphi's website, am I right in saying I will need to get the 501z injectors for a 2005 TDci 130ps?
 

·
Little Megger
Joined
·
4,733 Posts
Hi, reading through the static leakoff steps, you also disconnect the IMV as well as the injectors. The white blanking plugs should be fine on the leakoff pipes as the O rings do the sealing.
It looks like the handy links at the bottom of Peter Scott's signature to useful info like leak off tests.. no longer work.!

If you remove your faulty injector and send it to p f Jones or Bob Beck they'll refurb it for you. Have you got an injector socket?
I found this static leakoff info in one of Peter Scott's posts..
Font Screenshot Number Document
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
Edit: I don't have an injector wrench but I know a mechanic that has seen many people try and remove original injectors on these cars and snap them clean So I'm more than happy to cough up a 100ish £ to get it done propper if that is the cause of my low pressure that is.
Understood, thank you for the help.

Every video had the bottles at different levels relative to the injectors and were all 'right side up', so I wasn't sure exactly how to set it up.
I'll be sure to unhook all the electricals and hang the kit from the bonnet with the bottles upsidedown as you said.

What role does unplugging my injectors and IMV play? Are we just dumping as much pressure into the injectors to see if they can even hold any or if they just piss it straight out the leak-off pipes?
When I did the pressure test originally (same procedure minus leak-off kit) I got only 30 bar on cranking. Here's hoping it's all going straight out of my injector and my pump is actually okay!
 

·
Little Megger
Joined
·
4,733 Posts
Hi, I dunno about hanging the bottles up! I think it's only for neatness sake..? I stuff mine 'right way up' near the rad.. Also, I dunno why you need to disconnect the injectors..after all they're not firing anyway. Be interested if there's a difference in the test result with the IMV connected /unconnected.... perhaps you can conduct the test both ways. On these engines you're more likely to snap glowplugs than injectors. I think you'll be quite safe getting yourself an injector socket (with a window) and doing a bit of DIY.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,294 Posts
Don't think I have seen any threads on snapped injectors, they are about 20mm diameter?

Glowplugs on the other hand yes we have had a few of those, the threads must protrude into the chamber
and they get carbon buildup. Get the engine hot and use WD40 or your preferred penetrating oil.

Soak them for a few days before doing the job, undo slightly spray and then tighten slightly and repeat.

I noticed that you can feel it getting tighter, so stopped and sprayed it then moved into the next one.
When coming back to the previoues one it would undo easier before binding again. Don't rush it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Okay, I've just completed the test as per your instructions and Delphi's pdf with some interesting results.

My peak pressure was exactly the same as my pressure tests, 30 bar (go figure).
I knew Cyl#1 was going to be a failure when I turned the ignition on (got a steady 6ish bar FRP with the priming pump) and there was already two inches in the tube.
5 seconds of cranking and the fuel level had risen all the way to the top of the pipe (42cm!) and deposited 10ml in the collection bottle as well as black particles (1-2 mm in size, non-magnetic and not shiny, not likely to be pump parts?). In just 5 seconds at 30 bar!

For reliability sake, I did it again with a fresh bottle and it was even worse giving me 20 ml of fuel in the bottle! Luckily no particulates this time around.

As for the other three injectors, they were almost dry yesterday and again today. Perhaps so much fuel is going out #1 they don't have the pressure to force anything out of their leak-off pipes? Alternatively, they could have air trapped in them but that seems less likely as #1 had no air bubbles during the test (that were present in the tubing at least).

So we can conclude the injector in cyl#1 has catastrophically failed and that's what lead to my poor idle, low pressure and eventual no-start condition?
I'll reply to this comment with photos I took and a link to the videos I recorded to show my adventures.
 
21 - 40 of 133 Posts
Top