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MEG Corporal
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Poor cold start (engine turns but doesn't fire) and intermittent "stumble" when cold and warming up, I've changed the TMAP and engine coolant temp sensor on the left hand side of the cylinder head (nearside, UK passenger side),

http://www.fordmondeo.org/forum/showtopic.php?tid/724595/

Throttle butterfly valve is not straight, perhaps it's meant to be bent??

http://www.fordmondeo.org/forum/showtopic.php?tid/729971/

Is there another engine coolant temp sensor, the Mk2 had two, one for the ECU and one for the gauge. Hayne states that the sensor mounted on the LHS of the cylinder head (nearside) is for the ECU, I changed it and the problem is still there, I disconnected the sensor and the temp gauge dropped to zero, but of course the sensor could feed the temp gauge and the ECU. Is there another coolant temp sensor elsewhere? Perhaps on the thermostat housing? I know that the housing has a connection for the electrical operation of the thermostat, but is there another connection for a temp sensor?

Plugs 6000 miles old, fuel filter approx 16000, airfilter OK, battery good. Engine reaches redline in 1st, 2nd and 3rd so fuel pressure probably OK. Idle rock solid, stumble can be driven around by gradually opening throttle until 2500(ish) rpm. Stumble barely noticeable when hot.

Edit: Ford dealer tells me that he has never sold a set of HT leads for a Mk3, local motorfactor doesn't stock them and not in his book, so Mk3 HT leads are probably reliable (famous last words!!)
 

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MEG Captain
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4,819 Posts
have you tried doing the dashboard diagnostics to see if anything shows ????
 

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MEG Captain
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4,819 Posts
diagnostic mode , it is the dtc bit you will be interested in , there is a full list of codes somewhere on here but i cant remember where :crazy: :D
 

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MEG Corporal
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Paul, my password doesn't seem to work, can I borrow yours until it's fixed ........ ?

dtc E199 appears but I can't find anything relating to that on other Ford trouble-shooting forums.

It's odd, the car was a pig to start this morning, It's been standing for a couple of hours, the coolant temp gauge was down to minimum, car started and drove fine.
 

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MEG Captain
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4,819 Posts
you dont need a password , the codes are there to see , the problem is i cant remember where :whistling: :D
 

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Dude
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1,941 Posts
Micky said:
Poor cold start (engine turns but doesn't fire) and intermittent "stumble" when cold and warming up,
When you get the "stumble" is it only when you have a problem starting the car?
Also when you have a problem starting it from cold, have you been on a long run or a short journey.

I find that if i have done a short run (less then 5 miles) And come to start it from cold it has a problem kicking in, and then i get the "stumble" but have found that if i depress the accelerator as im turning the engien off i have no problems at all.
 

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MEG Corporal
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cool_dood said:
When you get the "stumble" is it only when you have a problem starting the car?
Also when you have a problem starting it from cold, have you been on a long run or a short journey.

I find that if i have done a short run (less then 5 miles) And come to start it from cold it has a problem kicking in, and then i get the "stumble" but have found that if i depress the accelerator as im turning the engien off i have no problems at all.
Thanks CD, the car is very rarely used for journeys less than 5 miles, the engine on the last Mundano I had was running well at 150k+ miles and I'm sure that was down to no short trips. On Friday the car covered 200 miles, it didn't want to start on Saturday morning. I think the ECU cuts the fuel after a few seconds of cranking to save the cat, so it's not like trying to start a carb car. I shouldn't have to touch the accelerator during starting, the ECU should make all the adjustments, but somethings very wrong when my kitcar can sit in the garage for a couple of weeks and it starts first time, every time ... well, nearly everytime :whistling:

I had to end up flooring the accelerator on the Mondeo to get it started this morning, smoke from the exhaust as well :annoyed: :annoyed: Which might have been the surgical spirit burning off, or it might have been unburnt fuel. Starting by flooring the accelerator usually means flooding. The starter motor seems to stall after about 10 secs turning over, and then it turns over again. Battery was tested today with a drop tester, all OK. I suppose it's possible that if the battery is on its way out then it might have enough power to turn the engine over but not enough to keep the fuel pressure up. But if the battery is the problem then why does it "stumble" when it's running? The stumble is much worse as the car is warming up. It ran well this afternoon, I'll have to see how it starts tomorrow. it's possible that cleaning the throttle valve has helped but the ECU has to re-learn the new characteristics. Who knows?? :D

Battery voltage is 12.5ish volts with engine off and climbs to 14v-and-a-bit with engine running, no fault lights on the dash.

Do you touch the accelerator when you start the car from cold, warm or hot?
 

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Dude
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Micky said:
Do you touch the accelerator when you start the car from cold, warm or hot?
Hmmm, Seems to be a diffrent problem then what i occasionaly have.

When i start my car, i never touch the accelerator, BUT i always depress the clutch :crazy:
 

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Still waiting to Wii
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2,710 Posts
you've got an overfuelling/ignition problem, you need to determine if the ECM is dumping too much fuel in when cold. The having to floor it to get it to start is the obivous problem, but it could also be down to igintion coil problems, which will caus eunburnt fuel in.
 

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MEG Corporal
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Cool_dood said:
Hmmm, Seems to be a diffrent problem then what i occasionaly have.
When i start my car, i never touch the accelerator, BUT i always depress the clutch :crazy:
The mechanical fuel injection systems used by Ford in pre-history (J-tronic?) needed use of the accelerator in some situations, but all the ECU systems should start at all temperatures without foot on accelerator.
I think some cars have an interlock fitted to the clutch that prevents the car from starting unless the clutch is depressed.

Car started fine this morning, ambient temp = 13'C. Some stumbling. Travelled 35 miles, stopped then restarted after about an hour, stumbling gone. Although I've cleaned the ICV and the idle is rock steady I'll have another look at that, perhaps it's not moving to the cold start position (is there a cold start position for the ICV?)
 

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MEG Corporal
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
jarhedch said:
you've got an overfuelling/ignition problem, you need to determine if the ECM is dumping too much fuel in when cold. The having to floor it to get it to start is the obivous problem, but it could also be down to igintion coil problems, which will caus eunburnt fuel in.
Possible, though I'm not certain if the flooring was needed because of the surgical spirit swilling around in the inlet tract!

It's fine when it's hot, and started first time today at 13'C. I'll see what tomorrow brings.
 
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