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No starting - starter motor? 2.0 Duratec

7310 Views 18 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  badmonkey
In the last week or so I have noticed that the engine has not started cranking immediately the key is turned; there has been a very slight delay as opposed to the immediate crank and start that I'm used to.

Today the engine is dead. Turn the key and no crank and no starter motor spin either. There is a slight click but then zip.

Fuses 28 and 29 are okay.

Then I go out to look at dash cluster for any error codes, and the engine starts just fine when I turn the key. No codes obviously.

That's about it, does this tell an obvious story to anyone?

P.S. I read horror stories about the DMF killing the starter motor on the Duratorq diesels. Is this an issue at all with the petrols?
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Check the starter motor wire. It happened with my rover. The actual wire snapped off and would not crank up.
Yeah but it's worked fine since.
I don't even know where the starter is LOL, is it easy to find?
When it wasn't working, how many times did you try it? Could it be an ignition switch problem with worn contacts?

Did the warning lights dip when key turned to start? (this could indicate loose battery connection that may be arcing)

Otherwise look in the Haynes to see what is in line and might need reseating or testing.

Could be that when you pulled the fuses that reseating them solved the problem. I reseated the GEM connections and it solved a few problems for me.

Paul. (also in NZ).
I tried it up to maybe 10 times. Wasn't turning over so wasn't concerned about flattening battery. Tried wiggling the key a little, and increased/decreased pressure.

Dash lights didn't dip. Battery connections are perfect, I maintain all that stuff well. Would be worth checking the other connections though. Where is the starter?

I considered the fuses too although it sounds a little hard to believe. Guess so far is starter motor brushes, if it continues. So far I've started the car a half dozen times and it's fine. Go figure.
Dodgy immobiliser?

Mine did it, Turn the key & the LED in the clock flashes meaning it has not disarmed.

Only sometimes though, Swapped key & sorted. If you have 2 keys program a 3rd now just in case.
I had visions of mine failing & having to pay ford £££ for a new set.
Starter motor is quite accessible on the front of the engine, just below the throttle valve.

See the animation here to see exactly where:

Next time it fails you can whip out your multimeter and check if voltage is getting to the solenoid.

Paul.
Right, that's why I wasn't sure where it was. I'm not sure I'd call that accessible! No space at all between the radiator fan and the motor, and the throttle body and inlet manifold obscures access from the top - have to raise the car and do everything from below huh? I can't even see the solenoid contacts let alone reach them with DMM prongs.

That's a very nice animation Paul. Don't know of any available 3D models of the engine, like the one used to render that, do ya? I work with SolidWorks, it would be cool to play with a 3D assembly like that.

Purple I believe I was getting a click from the engine bay, which is pointing me to the motor; I assume the immobilizer would be killing it stone dead - I'd confirm with a DMM as Paul says. I don't think the clock LED was flashing and I did try both of my keys. The "problem" is the damn thing has worked 100% for the last few days, so I can't test it... I guess it will next die on me at 2 AM in pouring rain away from home.
If you here clicking from the engine bay,that will be the starter,clicking and then nothing usually indicates a duff battery,or possibly a poor connection in the starter or jammed starter/flywheel gear.

I am sure the clicking is the solenoid throwing the connecting plate across supply and earth,for power to activate the starter mechanism,maybe you have a poor connection at that point,but its intermittent.

Sometimes on older cars the starter motor gear gets jammed in the flywheel ring gear,due to wear on either component,next time it does it,leave the car in gear and just rock the car backwards and forwards a few times,this will usually free the jammed components,then try and start again.
My car is an auto, won't rocking it just move the torque converter and not transfer any motion to the engine?

I might take the starter motor off and see what I can clean up and service. Is the solenoid connection plate easily accessible dya know?

As to the flywheel cog, should this be greased or oiled or what?
badmonkey said:
My car is an auto, won't rocking it just move the torque converter and not transfer any motion to the engine?

I might take the starter motor off and see what I can clean up and service. Is the solenoid connection plate easily accessible dya know?

As to the flywheel cog, should this be greased or oiled or what?
Change your sig,so we know what we are dealing with. :idea:

Auto's have more electrical gadgets that can fail,with yours being intermittent it points to a dodgy solenoid in the starting system.

The flywheel and starter mesh gear don't use oil or grease.

Don't rock the car with it being auto,pointless.

You need to check a wiring/electrical circuit diagram for starting. Haynes.
A while back i bought a MK2 mondeo, Test drove it several times.
The day i bought it i went to pick the family up, Stopped outside then it wouldnt start. No starter.

I wasnt in the mood so phoned the RAC, guy came out still no go, He was just about to jack it up & i tried again it started.

Worked fine for months, Then whilst on holiday it did it again.

Cars.. Dont you love them.
Sorry, I don't have any 3D models, just found it when researching the Duratec HE before buying the car.

Paul. :)
Just to conclude this thread and assist anyone with the same problem:

This turned out to be a sticking starter relay. Swapped with the head-light relay, which is the same, and it solved the problem (and meant the lights wouldn't turn on without a delay :) ). Relays carb up with the arcing when they're activated, and eventually die.

NZ$13 plug-n-play relay in the engine bay fuse box, so that's a cheap repair. So while it seemed like starter motor brushes, this is the symptom of a sticking relay :L
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This seems to be a much-requested procedure, so I've added it to my list of technical articles.

The situation here is that your car won't start. You turn the key to start, and you get nothing. This procedure is only for those times when the starter doesn't even try to crank the engine. You turn the key and you get nothing or maybe a click and some dimming of the idiot lights.

Here's the troubleshooting procedure for you.

Your first goal is to determine the state of charge of your battery. Turn your headlights on and see how bright they are. If they are of normal brightness then you are probably OK. If you have a voltmeter, put it across the terminals of the battery. A fully charged battery will read around 12.5 volts, a dead battery will be less than say 11.8 volts. If your battery is dead, charge it and then proceed to the next step.

Next you want to find out if your ignition switch is sending power to the solenoid. A preliminary check for this is if your idiot lights dim when you turn the key to start, that's a good indicator that the ignition switch is functioning properly. To check for sure, get under the car and disconnect from the solenoid the wire that comes from the ignition switch. It connects to a push-on spade connector on the solenoid. Fuel-injected cars have two spade connectors on the solenoid. In that case, the ignition switch wire will be the heavier of the two wires. Disconnect the wire, then use your voltmeter to check for 12v at that wire. Put the positive lead to the wire and ground the negative lead, then have your helper turn the key to start. When your helper does this, you should read 12v at the wire. If not, suspect a defective ignition switch or a break in the wiring (or disconnected) wire between the battery and ignition switch or ignition switch and starter. Repair and try again. If you do have power at that wire, move on to the next step.

Next you want to see if the problem lies in the starter motor itself. Looking at the back of the solenoid, you will see two big post electrical connectors. What you want to do here (TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL -- PARKING BRAKE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is grab a big screwdriver or a pair of insulated pliers. Touch only the plastic or rubber handle. You want to take this tool and short across the two big post terminals. Be prepared for some sparks, but hold the tool up there until you make a good connection. What you are doing here is connecting the battery directly to the starter motor, WITHOUT engaging the solenoid. So what should happen is that the starter motor will spin but will not crank the engine. It should sound like a regular electric motor, no gravelly or strange noises. If it does not spin or sounds really bad, have it rebuilt. If it works like it's supposed to, the motor is good so move on to the next step.

OK, you're now starting to run out of possible problems! The next test is to see if the solenoid is working. Here's how this goes. First, TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL -- PARKING BRAKE ON!!!!!!!. Look at the back of the solenoid. There are the two big post terminals you just played with. Look at the one on the right. You will see that there is simply a short heavy braided wire attached to it that runs down into the starter motor. What you want to do here is spike the positive lead of your voltmeter into this braided wire and ground the negative lead. Then have your helper turn the key to start. When your helper does this, you should hear a clunk and measure 12v with your voltmeter (additionally, the engine should be cranking as this happens). If you do not measure 12v, your solenoid is not activating and is not sending power to the starter motor. I had a case on my van where the solenoid would clunk but I was only measuring 1.5 volts at that braided wire, and the starter motor was not turning. I had the solenoid rebuilt at a shop and that solved the problem.

What you can also do to further test the solenoid is to remove the wire from the ignition switch from the solenoid. TRANSMISSION IN NEUTRAL -- PARKING BRAKE ON!!!!!!!. Take your screwdriver or insulated pliers and short the big post with all the wires to it to the terminal on the solenoid where the ignition switch wire plugged in. This will bypass the ignition switch and send full battery current directly to the solenoid. This should make the solenoid kick in and the engine should crank. If it cranks this way but not when you do the test in the paragraph above, then your solenoid works but it's either sticky or you have a big voltage drop when going through the ignition switch, possibly a dead ignition switch. The preceding parts of this test should have identified a bad ignition switch already, so if you've gotten this far and it works when you short the solenoid directly to battery power, you likely just have an old stick solenoid that needs a lot more current to activate than it's getting from the ignition switch. See below for your options.

If you do not measure 12v at the braided wire as above, then there are two possible situations. First is that you have the famous VW hot-start sticky solenoid problem. What you should do (and I recommend this as a first remedy to anyone who is experiencing the above problem) is to wire a relay into the circuit. The circuit is already marginal due to the lack of a relay from the factory and the long wiring path. Age and temperature of the wires serves to further degrade the situation. You can wire a relay into the system and starting reliability will be greatly improved. See my relay installation article for instructions.

If, after wiring in the relay, your situation does not improve, then you have to face the music -- your solenoid is toast. Remove the starter and have the solenoid rebuilt -- if your starter motor tests fine and you are short on cash, you may wish to just have the solenoid rebuilt, as I did. I took it to a local automotive electrical rebuilder and that solved my problem. Or you can go whole hog and exchange your starter/solenoid assembly for a rebuilt model bought at a parts store. This, however, can be quite expensive.

And that should do it, that's a fairly good troubleshooting procedure that ought to tell you where you stand and what you need to fix.
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Good post Andy :L
One thing, did you write that specifically for the Mk3? Because there is already a relay in the starter circuit, which was my failure point that defied analysis for quite a while because nobody I asked knew to suggest it and I had no idea it was there... so the last few paragraphs seem misleading.
Check the earth strap. I got stuck in Aberdeen as I forgot to check the basics...
Incidently, I've got a spare coil pack now!
Just to conclude this thread and assist anyone with the same problem:

This turned out to be a sticking starter relay. Swapped with the head-light relay, which is the same, and it solved the problem (and meant the lights wouldn't turn on without a delay
). Relays carb up with the arcing when they're activated, and eventually die.

NZ$13 plug-n-play relay in the engine bay fuse box, so that's a cheap repair. So while it seemed like starter motor brushes, this is the symptom of a sticking relay
Hi, I seem to be having the same problem with a '04 TDCi, sometimes it starts perfectly, sometimes nothing happens at all (no starter motor turning, can't hear a click) for 3 or 4 tries, then it starts, so I might try replacing the relay. Is it just a standard relay I could get from a motor factors, or a special Ford part?

Thanks!
Just to conclude this thread and assist anyone with the same problem:

This turned out to be a sticking starter relay. Swapped with the head-light relay, which is the same, and it solved the problem (and meant the lights wouldn't turn on without a delay
). Relays carb up with the arcing when they're activated, and eventually die.

NZ$13 plug-n-play relay in the engine bay fuse box, so that's a cheap repair. So while it seemed like starter motor brushes, this is the symptom of a sticking relay
Hi, I seem to be having the same problem with a '04 TDCi, sometimes it starts perfectly, sometimes nothing happens at all (no starter motor turning, can't hear a click) for 3 or 4 tries, then it starts, so I might try replacing the relay. Is it just a standard relay I could get from a motor factors, or a special Ford part?

Thanks!
[/quote]
No any auto electrical store should be able to supply.

You don't need to test it by buying a new one, just swap it for one that is known to be working, like the headlight relay, as explained in my post. They are the same.
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