[cosworth 2wd]

Hi all.

I own a 2004 Mondeo estate with the 130HP TDCI engine and the 6 speed transmission. Compared to other diesel cars with the same(advertised) horsepower the mondeo feels quite strong IMHO.

I recently did a power measurement with a Race Technology (www.race-technolgy.com) Performance Meter AP-22. According to this my engine made 148HP :L :thankyousign:

Now, I would maybe be a bit doubtfull about this hadn't it been for these articles:

http://www.superchips.co.uk/roadtest/MondeoTDCi%20130%20new%20Bluefin.pdf

http://www.dieselcar.com/pdf-files/articles/tuning/175-brom-tuningmondeo.pdf

And the power chart on the Superchips/Bluefin website:

http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/mondeotdci130bhp-d.pdf

According to these measurements the TDCI 130HP in reality is between 140-150HP instead of the advertised 130 :first:

What are your experiences ?

 

[toyo]

My theory is that ford do this to keep the insurance group low. They did the same with the fiesta zetec s. Thay said its 102bhp but it is not lol.

 

[TDCi 160]

Well ill be more than chuffed if thats what mines putting out! Mines got an induction kit which should be good for another 8 or so bhp? Thing is, i wouldnt quite say it felt like it had 150bhp though?

 

[DavePage]

Well I went from a MK2 TD which is supposed to have 89bhp, to a MK3 TDDi which is supposed to have 113bhp and all I can say is it felt like a lot more of a jump in power! Actual standard figures for the TDDi 115 have been quoted at about 125ish which is a bit more than quoted. Probably what the biggest diffference in how it felt to me was the newer engines have much more torque which is what you really use in a Diesel.

 

[cosworth 2wd]

Agree that the torque is what you really use in the diesel engines. In that respect the 130HP is supposed to give 330NM and 350NM on overboost. This also compares positively against the 140HP VW Pumpedüse engine which is quoted at 320NM. That engine also often gets comments about a comparatively short powerband, i.e you need to shift more than in the Mondeo. In my experience the VW engine maybe feels a bit stronger low down. Maybe that is because the rise of the torque curve is quite steep?

 

[derv]

For the overboost, is there a little kickdown switch under the go pedal or does the ecu just know when your're giving it full welly?

 

[totalguy]

had a look at the links with the power curves seems to me that under 2000 rpm theres no difference in power, which seems a bit silly really or is that for the ecconomy side to keep good eccomomy when your driving slowly?

 

[John_C]

The turbo isn't really doing anything below 2k rpm. It's hard to get anything out of a turbo diesel through chip tuning until the turbo is spinning.

Cheers,
J

 

[totalguy]

yeah i guess thats true but ithought they tuned the engine not the turbo you would think it would be an improvement throughout.

 

[logiclee]

The turbo isn't really doing anything below 2k rpm. It's hard to get anything out of a turbo diesel through chip tuning until the turbo is spinning.

Cheers,
J

The turbo on a TDCi is boosting strongly from 1500rpm and producing maximum boost and maximum torque by 1800rpm.

As others have stated the TDCi can punch above it's stated power figures especially during overtaking and midrange grunt. The constant rated torque output is higher than VAG's 130 and 140 engines as well as Vauxhalls 150 engine.
Then factor in the overboost and the TDCi130 out torques even the big hitting 160 2.0's from BMW.

I've been involved in motorsport for years and IMO rolling roads should only be used as a guide to what difference a modification makes. Figures and curves vary wildly from road to road and even day to day.

Cheers
Lee

 

[ScoobyChris]

I've been involved in motorsport for years and IMO rolling roads should only be used as a guide to what difference a modification makes. Figures and curves vary wildly from road to road and even day to day.

Exactly - the only accurate dyno is a correctly calibrated bench engine dyno! Still rolling road figures are good for bragging down t'pub :}

Chris

 

[John_C]

The turbo on a TDCi is boosting strongly from 1500rpm and producing maximum boost and maximum torque by 1800rpm.

Are you sure, my butt dyno says different The car only really starts to come on song when the revs hit 1900. Sure it may well be spooling up but you don't get the power hit until nearly 2k hence my comment.

Just did a quick google search and the torque and power curves I found on the web show that 1500 is where the curve really starts to steepen but it is about 1900 where it goes ballistic and max torque is at about 2250 rpm to 3000 rpm.

Also don't get me wrong here but I'm not sure you can compare the TDCi to the new BMW 4 pot TD in the real world. Generally I can't stand BMWs but I have driven a new 320d and in a straight fight on the road I reckon the BMW engine wouldn't just beat the 130 TDCi it would come round and shag it's sister afterwards just to prove the point.

Cheers,
J

 

[Yobbo]

I have been on very many rolling roads over the years and only pick ones where I know that the real racers go with good budgets as they want a degree of real accuracy and not inflated numbers for a willy waving contest.

My 115 TDCi went on the rollers earlier in the year at such a place and showed 123hp and more torque than advertised. It was immediately followed on the rollers 3 minutes later by a Hart engined Caterham that cost enormous money and then the rollers showed the same power/torque for that as it had on the makers engine dyno to within about 1 hp; so I figured my hp numbers were probably about right.

I used to be sceptical what folks said about Mondy's putting out more than Ford said but now I am more willing to listen. :first:

 

[quinny100]

My old 2002 TDCi 130 went on the rollers at Powerstation and made 143BHP. Looking at other figures on the day I'd say it was fairly accurate - a few Mk2 2.0 petrols ran on the same day and all made around 136BHP which is bang on.

 

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[logiclee]

The turbo on a TDCi is boosting strongly from 1500rpm and producing maximum boost and maximum torque by 1800rpm.

Are you sure, my butt dyno says different
Cheers,
J

Well on Ford's very expensive and calibrated bench Dyno it does.

Maximum torque at 1800rpm, you can really feel this when towing loaded up hill. Ford published an actual engine dyno graph in on of the early Mondeo brochures.
In my experience the EU4 versions with electronic VNT seem to spool up quicker than the EU3 versions but there is not much in it.

Cheers
Lee

 

[John_C]

Heh, fair enough, but if you can't have faith in your own butt what can you trust

Don't suppose you have that graph do you, would like to see what a bench dyno stats say about the engine vs what a rolling road says.

Cheers,
J

 

[TDCi 160]

Where can I go to get my Mondeo dyno'd? Do I have to go with a bunch of other cars or can I just turn up to a place and get it done? Any recommendations?

Reckon we should have a dyno day for the North West! Where abouts are you from mate?

 

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[DavePage]

I'd be up for that if I can get there :L