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Little Megger
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4,501 Posts
Rim Gas Machine tool Bicycle part Nickel
As usual, too much reading and getting my knickers in a twist. Just read that in lowering the sub-frame to remove the hydro bush bolt, the steering can receive too much strain so should be disconnected first.

Not seen this before but is it so?
Here are the original Ford bolts.
Altho' I only changed one lower arm, the n/s one, I lowered the entire s/f completely as I wanted to put the bolts in from the top as original.... you don't need to if you put the bolts in from the bottom. I didn't have to release the steering column but did have to release some fittings attached to the front of the s/f
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Many thanks; so there should be a shoulder on the hydro bolt. Would appreciate if you could measure the diameter of the shoulder under the flange.

Too much reading regarding putting the bolt in from the bottom and the risk of it falling out. Can't see that is a problem as there are plenty of bottom inserted bolts ( sub frame mounting, etc)

From videos I have seen, I though they only lowered the back of the s-f, not the front.

Guess that as I will have to lower the s-f to remove it, there should be no problem reinstalling from the top. But now I'm getting paranoid about lowering the s-f and needing the alignment pins to tighten it back.

I'm not actually a happy bunny with the arms. The hydro bush is not sitting fully onto the arm but is raised around 3mm; it is either a very tight fit or has not been pressed fully home. And if you look at my measurement photo, the top of the outer cup is not damaged, but not a regular smooth finish; looks like it has been crimped. And then there are the holes which will certainly let in water.
 

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Little Megger
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4,501 Posts
Of the 2 bolts, one has a shoulder and one hasn't. The unshouldered one has a shaft diameter of 11.9mm, and the one with a shoulder: the shoulder itself is11.9mm, and the rest of the shaft is 10.9mm dunno which one came off of which bush as never noticed a difference before now.
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Thanks. Interesting and disappointing! The supplied bolts are both around 11.97mm and the hydro bush sleeve is around 13mm. Had hoped that the shoulder would be wider where it fits into the hydro bush sleeve.

The front bush sleeve is almost exactly 12mm and the bolt is a nice snug fit. Does not make sense that the hydor bush would be so loose. Will investigate further before may be returning the control arm as there is a change it is 'faulty.'
 

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Little Megger
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4,501 Posts
I managed to buy genuine Ford nos at a reasonable price, but had to buy the nuts n bolts at Ford full price.. I can go under the car if you want and see if mine has these troubling holes...
Bet your bolts and nuts are unflanged
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Unflanged with washers, but I guess that is my fault as that is how they are shown on the listing. I don't actually have any issue with using the originals assuming the nuts are not rounded. Whichever way around I install them, would use some threadlock.

Interestingly, the listing says AutoHaus and the bolt plastic packaging has that logo all over it. But the bag with the control arms has nothing printed on it. And the listing photo, although not very good quality, does not appear to have the three top holes.
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Dropped into my local garage, where I have never taken the car to be serviced, to see if they would offer some freindly advice on the hydro bush 13mm sleeve.

The answer is, they are always larger than the bolt, to facilitate replacing the bolt. Apparently, after years, the hydro bush will be 'set' at an angle and because of this, removing the bolt can be easy. But the new one will be up-right from the factory, so a slightly larger hole allows the botl to fit easier. This is also the reason that the bolt is narrower and has a shoulder. The correct torque on the bolt clamps the hydro bush into position and it should not move.
 

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Little Megger
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4,501 Posts
Who knew!?
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
It may be right but since he also said that it was not necessary to lower the sub-frame, when all the various Mk3 vids suggest that it is, what do I (or he) know?

Mat be on other cars it is not necessary?
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
As an addition to the 13mm sleeve for a 12mm, or 12mm shouldered bolt, I swung into Frauds to ask.

The gent did not specifically know as they will just fit whatever is require with no questions asked, but his suggestion hold a lot of water.

Because it is a long bolt in a long sleeve, if it is a close fit, over time rust will occur and totally trap the bolt in the sleeve, making removal virtually impossible. By having a 13mm sleeve for a 12mm shouldered bolt, the bolt is most unlikely to be become trapped.

When I come to do it, think I will give the non-thread part a coat of Waxyol before installing. And think I will use the existing bolts with new Nylocs as new bolts require a mortgage upgrade.
 

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Little Megger
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4,501 Posts
Go on then, shock me.. How much?
Also , I think it's out of ignorance that ppl don't lower the subframe... they just think the bushes are chunks of rubber and don't know about them being hydro bushes and liable to rupture...
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
This was from some years ago and in my searching, I have found them even more expensive


or


Certainly, many of the prices are for the rear alignment eccentric bolts and they can be £12 + each.
 

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Dash cams, catch 'em out :)
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13,163 Posts
This was from some years ago and in my searching, I have found them even more expensive


or


Certainly, many of the prices are for the rear alignment eccentric bolts and they can be £12 + each.
Luckily companies like Febi sell a lot of the bolts and nuts for the mk3 suspension.
But, even using a lot of Febi fixings I still ended up spending a few hundred on fixings when I refurbed the underside of my car :(
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Under the car today, cleaning up a couple of minor oil damp patches so they do not look too bad for the forth-coming MOT.

Decided to clean up a few bits in preparation for may be replacing the control arms. Pinch bolts free and easy to release, track rod bolts and adjustment all easy to adjust, and best of all .................

X years ago, I broke a front spring on a pot hole. In the days before I was tackling any of these jobs, had a mobile mech replace it, and I don't recall if he replaced the control arms at the same time or what he did to the control arms.

But both hydro bolts are inserted from the bottom, so with luck, lowering the sub-frame will not be necessary.
 

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Little Megger
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I think you will tho' in order to remove the strut. (I reserve the right to be wrong)
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Thought lowering the s-f was only to allow the hydro bolt removal but perhaps it is necessary to lower a little to remove ball joint. I have read that compressing the springs helps with reinstalling, but I don't have a spring compressor.

Will wait until after the MOT as may be nothing will show up. Then I will have time to do it at my leisure.
 

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Mondeo Lover
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846 Posts
you dont need to remove the strut to change a bottom arm and if the bolts are in from the bottom then its very easy indeed.

undo the hydro bolt and remove
undo the front bush bolt and remove
undo the balljoint pinch bolt and remove
lever down the arm from the bottom of the hub until it pops out and slide the arm out

refitting is a reversal except..

put the hydro bush into the opening of the subframe and put the bolt through and nut on but dont tighten
rotate the arm and slide the front bush into its holder, bolt in but dont tighten
push down the arm and pop the balljoint into the hub, then put the bolt in and tighten it up.
next jack the car under the disc/hub/balljoint to load the suspension and tighten up the hydrobush bolt and nut and also the front bush bolt.
done
 

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Megger
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2,422 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 ·
The 'going over bumps' bang from the OSF wheel, which I suspect to be worn control arm bushes, did not get a mention in today's MOT. I will still replace but now I have another year to 'think' about it.

Thanks for the above, seems quite easy and I'm sure it is. One video mentioned about the drive shaft disengaging and had to be wiggled around to align the splines. I don't understand? The drive shaft into the dif has a 'circlip' so that will not pop out easily. The only other two sections that could disengage are the CJ joints, and if they disengage, it becomes a dirty reassembly job; not a realign the splines number.

So what am I missing? What part disengages?
 

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Mondeo Lover
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846 Posts
the inner tripod bearings, the cup of which is circlipped into the gearbox, the cv boot covers the joint but the tripod is free moving and can come out of the cup, it shouldnt do if you dont pull the strut outwards.
 
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