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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi There
I have a 2004 Mondeo TDCI 130hp with 350.000 km on it.
Car has worked out perfectly in all ways for these last 18 years!
But now, recently...increasingly...this car is overheating.
I started noticing it some months ago, if I were driving fast on long uphill road, it would end up getting hotter and hotter along the time, until I got to the top of the hill and then downhill it was all back to 90ºC
But last trip it turned really bad. Temp started to rise quite quickly and got to near 120º before I could get to the end of the hill. Also during same trip the injector light would eventually start to flash and get into limp mode until I restarted the engine.

Got the car back home and did lots of tests. To summarize.
Engine takes a long time to get to 90º while idling from cold start (summer here, 35ºC outside), almost 1h to get to 90º. Supposedly normal on diesel cars
While driving, - going uphill it starts increasing temp like 1º every10 seconds, non stop. If the slope is too long, it may get into red-120ºC, it won't stop getting hotter and hotter if I keep pushing the gas

While driving downhills, temp goes down as quickly as it got up, getting down to 90 or even 85º in 2 minutes downhill. This makes me think the radiator works fine

I got the water pump swapped some months ago, as the pump body got a crack and leaked.
Supposedly the smaller thermostat was swapped along with the water pump reaplcement.
Also I swapped the large thermostat when all this problem started. Tested old thermostat in boiling water and seemed to be working fine

Some friend (mechanic) pointed to probably bad head gasket, but I get none of the synptoms (engine oil is shiiny black, coolant is clear, I get no pressure in water tank of water hoses, and no power loss at all).

Also I managed to force the DTC to show up. It happens on higher gears going WOT as soon as I go above 2800 rpm.
DTC's I get (after a DTC clear):
  • P1000 OBD cycle not completed (probably noting to care for)
  • P1211 Injector Control pressure Higher /Lower than desired (Engine Running)
  • P0251 Inject pump fuel metering Control A
  • C1300 ABS Motor Pump Ckt failure
BTW I do have a small leak on one injector as I see some fuel around injector 1. Is this the reason for P1211&P0251?

after clearing DTC's and when I got the light on again, some DTC's changed to:
  • C1302 Left Front Isolation Clamping Circuit Failure
  • C1100 ABS Pump Switch Circuit Failure
Weird thing those ABS messaged showed up only as soon as I got the injectors DTC

Anyway I trying to find out if I got a bad head gasket that provokes overheating, or some other injection condition that derives in excessive heat of combustion.

I don't really care too much now for th DTC when WOT+2800rpm, what I need to find out is whether these codes are giving any hint on why this engine is overheating. Would a faulty rail pressure generate too much heat?

Any help would be appreciated!
TIA.
Eduardo
 

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Leakoff test on all the injectors. Yes an external leak could be the reason for the low rail pressure. But that maybe
a side effect of a failed/failing injector.

Drive between the power steering pump not actually turning the waterpump?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi. I don't think you mentioned the radiator fan in all of that?
Good point as "there are issues". My radiator fan is failing at times. I may be wrong but my belief is that radiator fan is usefull when stopped or driving very slowly, but would a radiator fan be any good at 90-120 km/h? My understanding is that the air flow it would generate could be equal to moving at 20-30 km/h, am I wrong?

Answering the question, I realized the fan has a lot of play (I can slide it more than 1 cm along its axis by hand, and it does not spin 100% freely by hand, although I've "caught" it blowing full speed at times, I am positive other times the engine was over 100ºC it would be stopped.

My thing was I'm not spending money in this fan if the problem is a head gasket (which I would not repair, I would throw away the car), should I expect the fan to do any good at higher speeds too?

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Leakoff test on all the injectors. Yes an external leak could be the reason for the low rail pressure. But that maybe
a side effect of a failed/failing injector.

Drive between the power steering pump not actually turning the waterpump?
I am not a mechanic, can I do a leak test on the injectors by myself? Could a defective injector cause a global excesive overheating in the engine?
The waterpump as you know is external on this car, coupled with the pwer steering pump in a block, and driven by a belt. This is driven by an external belt that I personally replaced 1 yr ago as it broke. Can I perform any test on this?
Thanks!
 

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Where the power steering pump attaches to the waterpump is a known issue so it may not be driving the
waterpump. You need to remove the steering pump and check if there is any damage.

Leakoff test kits £20 ish, simple job. It will not prove the injectors are good, they could pass that but have a poor
spray pattern. But it will show any that need replacing now.

Never had the radiator fan come on any of my diesels unless the AC is on, never got more than half way ( 88/90ºC )
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Where the power steering pump attaches to the waterpump is a known issue so it may not be driving the
waterpump. You need to remove the steering pump and check if there is any damage.

Leakoff test kits £20 ish, simple job. It will not prove the injectors are good, they could pass that but have a poor
spray pattern. But it will show any that need replacing now.

Never had the radiator fan come on any of my diesels unless the AC is on, never got more than half way ( 88/90ºC )
Ok, I will check the water pump, but I was wonderig if it won't be easier to just detach a water hose from the pump body and see if it moves the water?

Injector test kit: I will see what I can find on Amazon, but like I said before, for me my #1 priority now to solve os the overheating problem so if the overheating is not caused by the injector issue I don't spend money on this until I fix the other, as Im still afraid of a possible head gasket issue, and if that's the case I won't spend any more money into this car. Do you think the injector issue could be related with the overheating?

Ok so your fan never has to start unless you use AC? Your temp never gets above 90ºC? It's being a pretty hot summer over here this year with max above 35-37ºC 95% of the days.

Thanks again!
 

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Fully loaded car towing a caravan in summer and never had the fan come on.
 

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Little Megger
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The fan speed control on early models is a resistor at the bottom of the fan tray, and it gets all weathers and corrodes like crazy (so breaks) the result is you don't get 2-stage fan speed. So check that resistor hasn't corroded away, or the spade connections to it aren't also corroded, as your car is 18 years old!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The fan speed control on early models is a resistor at the bottom of the fan tray, and it gets all weathers and corrodes like crazy (so breaks) the result is you don't get 2-stage fan speed. So check that resistor hasn't corroded away, or the spade connections to it aren't also corroded, as your car is 18 years old!
Yes I know about that cause I've seen tutorials about it. But I've had my temp get to 120ºC and fan was completly stoppped (no low no high speed). And fan axle has a large play, and also when I stop my car if the fan was spinning I hear the fan hitting the case clak-clak-clak.....

I tried to check the fan manually, schematic sayis you have 2 relays in the motor area to control them, if you jumper one you get LO if you jumper the other you get HI. In my car there's only one relay which is triggered all the time as soon as you turn the key and then there's got to be another wire that sends the desired speed, so for now I haven't been able to properly diagnose the fan, basically I see that sometimes at hight temps it is not spinning, other times it does, and it always makes noises when starting and stopping.

But again if we all agree that a radiator fan is only useful at lower drive speeds, I want to focus on what is making my car overheat while driving. Still not sure if the engine is generating excesive heat due to ...don't know what, or if the issue is lack of refrigeration.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Fully loaded car towing a caravan in summer and never had the fan come on.
And I guess you own the same model car right? If that's the case there's definitely something wrong in my car and it's not the lack of a proper radiator fan. I have a 900kg caravan too and I tried to take it the other day to the place where I store it, 20km away from my home, and it got to 120º while driving up a long hill for over 3 minutes... I won't be able to use my caravan until this is fixed as I don't have a hitch on my other car
 

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Little Megger
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So if I understand your reply correctly, the temp got to 120C and the fan did not run? If so, then investigate either a faulty fan, (is yours a twin fan or a single? - mine had a twin fan).... or a faulty switching relay. You need to start your investigation there. Let us know how you get on. If that was you on the other Ford forum with a very similar query, then also check that purple wire if yours has the later fan control board mounted on the fan tray, and not the one with the resistor that corrodes.
 

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Megger
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Some good thoughts here. Check for air in the coolant system. There is a bleed valve on top of the water pump. Undo with the engine off and fluid should come out (not air). Any air in the system would compromise cooling system performance.

My mk3 water pump always broke at the drive from the power steering pump into the water pump. Ideally you should replace both of these, not one by itself. I learned the hard way.
Make sure you have a damn good pair of long water pump pliers if you need to remove the high pressure pipe off the power steering pump - I remember it being a PITA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So if I understand your reply correctly, the temp got to 120C and the fan did not run? If so, then investigate either a faulty fan, (is yours a twin fan or a single? - mine had a twin fan).... or a faulty switching relay. You need to start your investigation there. Let us know how you get on. If that was you on the other Ford forum with a very similar query, then also check that purple wire if yours has the later fan control board mounted on the fan tray, and not the one with the resistor that corrodes.
Mine is a single fan, I've seen those twin fan and I wonder if I can replace mine by a twin one directly? Do the share the same mounting?
But like I said my overheating problem is only while driving on the road at 90-120km/h, my belief is that the fan should not be needed/useful at that speed, only at stop/street speed conditions, right?
No, I didn't post anything else on other forums. My car has only one relay for the fan, which is always active, there is a third pin to the fan that is directly driven by the ECU and I guess it sends a digital signal to the electronic module in the fan to tell the speed it wants
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Some good thoughts here. Check for air in the coolant system. There is a bleed valve on top of the water pump. Undo with the engine off and fluid should come out (not air). Any air in the system would compromise cooling system performance.

My mk3 water pump always broke at the drive from the power steering pump into the water pump. Ideally you should replace both of these, not one by itself. I learned the hard way.
Make sure you have a damn good pair of long water pump pliers if you need to remove the high pressure pipe off the power steering pump - I remember it being a PITA.
But I have had this problem, slowly increasing, since way before my water pump was installed, then after the water pump was replaced, now that I have replaced the thermostat and had to drain-refill the entire system, etc. so I don't think there has been an air pocket stuck in the system for such a long time.

Like I said this has been a slowly increasing problem in this this car, last year I eventually saw the temp rise above 90º at very seldom times, and lately this year this has turned almost persistent as soon as I drive uphill for a prolonged time. If the hill takes 2-3 minutes, the temp gets to 100-105 and the needle barely shows it "we're all good", but if the hill takes 5-10 minutes the temp gets to 110-120º and the needle clearly rises quickly
 

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Little Megger
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.. my belief is that the fan should not be needed/useful at that speed, only at stop/street speed conditions, right?

Err.... Not right! Fan shld kick in whenever temp gets too high AT ANY SPEED, and also when you turn a/c on. (this is 'cos a/c makes makes engine work harder)
I think with a/c on, fan shld run initially at low speed, then if pressure in a/c system increases, fan speed also switches to high speed. Get that purple wire checked for continuity as its a known cause of fan failure. - the wire is known to break inside the insulation, so you have to meter it out to test for continuity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Ok I may have found it... MAYBE
Hint #1: I went to a local repair shop this morning and the guy couldn't take my car as he was taking some days off starting tomorow but he insisted in checking the radiator. I didn't watn to start suspecting the radiator when all this started because the front of the first radiator (AC) was pretty clean, so I woulnd't expect the front of the second radiator (engime) to be dirtier than the first one
Hint #2: I have kept repeating that this has been a progressive problem that has been increasing along the years


So today I tried to slide my phone camera between front and back radiators and it did show some level of dirt in between
Now, after spending 4-5 hours disasseembling the fan and radiator, cleaning it with water and putting it back in place. See pics:
Font Pattern Road surface Wood Facade
Font Rectangle Gas Wood Composite material

I only need to wait until tomorrow to get to the city and find an used fan, and with that I will be ready to test this car and I will be back here with updates.

Only one question now: Can I just replace my one-fan block with one of those twin-fans ? Do they interchange directly? Mine has a square plug with 3 wires, black(GND), red (+12v) and purple (signal).

Thanks!
 

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Little Megger
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Re interchgeability of fans...... Don't go there! make sure you buy one from the same version UNLESS YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT THEY'RE THE SAME PART I'm pretty certain that there's no 3rd wire on the earlier fans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re interchgeability of fans...... Don't go there! make sure you buy one from the same version UNLESS YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT THEY'RE THE SAME PART I'm pretty certain that there's no 3rd wire on the earlier fans.
Yes I've been calculating the effective area of each and those twins are far from having double flow than the single ones, as the diameter to fit 2 of them is way smaller. I will get the same one with one fan, thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok, update
I thoroghfully cleaned the radiator yesterday and today I went to get an used fan. The only one they had, had a different connector (mine was oval shaped, theirs was square), but it shared the same 3 wires colors (black, red, purple), so I took the risk and soldered my old connector to this fan.
Assembled it all and went for a test drive. 32ºC outside and A/C all time ON
Uphill, topped at 86ºC and never wanted to get higher thatn that
Downhill, went down quickly to 80ºC

I call this good and fixed, thanks a lot to everyoe who commented on this post.
I still get those 2 DTC's when I go WOT >2800RPM but I will probably open a different post for that.

Thanks again
 
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