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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I remember reading on here a while ago about a general consensus that ultrasonic cleaning is a total fad and if you sent your injectors for ultrasonic cleaning then you were an idiot, I even think someone made their own 'p*sstake' ultrasonic cleaning box to highlight how ridiculous it is.

I was doing a bit of research into it is as we use ultrasonic cleaners in work for cleaning aircraft filters and have seen how effective they can be and I found this video:


If you watch where the injector tip is, notice how much dark dirt is removed from that area.

What do you guys think about this? You can buy a do it yourself ultrasonic cleaner from Amazon for £30.
 

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I really don't believe that "dirty" injectors are an issue. All while there is high pressure diesel being forced through the injector, the tip is being cleaned by a high pressure jet of diesel. Any areas that are not being cleaned in this way are not going to be areas that will affect the performance of the injector. When the injectors fail then they normally fail due to wear, not due to a build up of carbon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Even bearing in mind that the tip of the injector is being submitted to extremes of temperature, pressure and operating limits? As far as I'm aware fuel is being injected in at micron level and judging by the dirt that came of that injector and fuel glazing that's also possible, in the video that could have an effect on spray pattern and fuel quantity being injected in?

I half wish I had a engine knock above threshold code so I could have a play about with my injectors that are on 172,000miles.
 

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I did the pisstake. http://www.talkford....31#entry1836531

But sonic cleaning doesnt replace worn parts and the prices being charged for the cleaning was approx 3/4 the price
of a properly reconditioned injector.

If it was £20 all in then worth a shot maybe.. But £80 or so. Sorry but i think your mad paying that just for a clean.

The internals need a proper clean also... And checked for wear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Okay, im just playing devils advocate here a little bit. A sonic cleaner can be picked up for £30 which I think is the same as a can of BG224 is? And you can see the sonic cleaner working.

What's inside an injector? I'm assuming it's something like a coil with a ferrite center and a needle attached to it that governs fuel flow, a solenoid that gets 12v pulses according to rpm and timing? I've never seen inside one so any info would be helpful.
 

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Not sure how effective it would be on a diesel considering how much shite there is going through them but certainly helped me on my petrol V6.

£70 to clean 6 injectors was good value IMO. I got a before and after results on flow rates, spray patterns etc. When I refitted them I had a noticeably smoother idle and economy was slightly improved.

Rich got it done by the same company and his cold starting problems were solved; this was because the dirt in the injectors was stopping them sealing properly and the engine was slowly flooding when left for some time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not sure how effective it would be on a diesel considering how much shite there is going through them but certainly helped me on my petrol V6.

£70 to clean 6 injectors was good value IMO. I got a before and after results on flow rates, spray patterns etc. When I refitted them I had a noticeably smoother idle and economy was slightly improved.

Rich got it done by the same company and his cold starting problems were solved; this was because the dirt in the injectors was stopping them sealing properly and the engine was slowly flooding when left for some time.
I don't suppose you could post up the before and after flow rates, how many miles they'd covered etc?

I have cold start problems aswell so tempted to do the cleaning myself.
 

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I don't have the paperwork handy so can't give you exact numbers, however the optimum for each injector was 170 somethings and all were between 5% and 15% below this prior to cleaning.

Once cleaned, all were at 170 or 169
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I really don't believe that "dirty" injectors are an issue. All while there is high pressure diesel being forced through the injector, the tip is being cleaned by a high pressure jet of diesel. Any areas that are not being cleaned in this way are not going to be areas that will affect the performance of the injector. When the injectors fail then they normally fail due to wear, not due to a build up of carbon.

If I ever get a injector fault, and I must be due one soon, then I'll try it out with the one in work and update this thread.
 

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A lot of the muck that comes off in a bath will be external though.

Wear inside the injector will mess up the spray pattern, Restrict fuel flow or leak fuel when it shouldnt.

Depends which bits are worn.

£70 for 6 injectors... I guess thats petrol ones wchich work at much lower pressures. TDCI injector prices are
close to that EACH for sonic cleaning.

Thats why i say at that price its not worth it. Why pay that to clean a worn injector?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Totally agree most of the muck will be external, doesnt necesseraly mean that there wont be anything internal being dislodged by this method?

As for parts being worn, how many moving parts are there in a delphi injector and what is their range of movement?

Personally I think spray pattern is pretty much determind by the nozzle and I'd be interested to know the extent worn parts in the injector causing a restriction in flow, I can see leaking occuring if the solenoid isn't operating correctly perhaps?

I'm not sure, I'd be interested to know what you think and if you have any experience in stripping down an injector then give me as much info about them as possIble.
 

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It's not just moving parts that wear. The diesel itself will wear the injector away. I have seen lots of 90 degree bends in steam pipe erode through just from the erosion of the steam passing it and this is at much lower pressure than the diesel is at with massive tolerences.
 

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True carbon attached to the nozzle tip could restrict the flow, But i think the engine would be badly coked to be that bad.
Not impossible though.

No personal experience of stripping them, Seen guides on it and the small piezo electric nozzles fit onto the pad of a finger.

Internals must be made to very very precise tolerances.

To be able to clean them properly i think you would need a very high pressure rig pumping the stuff through it.

There is a kit on ebay for cleaning diesel injectors, But its from india, Not sure how safe that will be.
And it will need somethinig to drive the injector also.

If i could find a cheap setup that will drive an injector i would try making a cleaner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's not just moving parts that wear. The diesel itself will wear the injector away. I have seen lots of 90 degree bends in steam pipe erode through just from the erosion of the steam passing it and this is at much lower pressure than the diesel is at with massive tolerences.
High pressures dont cause erosion, I imagine the problem you've described is because steam, being water and heat caused corrosion, the heat being the catalyst. Diesel doesn't have the same effect.

I think you'd be suprised how little the internal parts of an injector move, I'd be surprised if it were anymore than 1mm (how many times is an injector pulsing a second, it doesnt have time for a large range of movement nor does it need it to allow such a small amount of fuel through) which makes me sceptical when it comes to there being wear?
 

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ultrasonic cleaning works well for petrol injectors as they varnish up over time and can get the nozzles blocked giving bad spray patterns. remember though that petrol injectors work up to a few bar of pressure, while TDCI ones work up to 1600.
You can get away to a degree with contamination in a petrol fuel system. You can't with common rail diesel.
 

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MEG Corporal
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I agree that ultrasonic can clean right back to metal but i also recon the injector intetnal parts wear . i know what your saying scopse but even of the minute pulse movement there is going to be wear .and i also believe erosion on the pintle heads .these are renewend on a proper overhaul of the injector .remember the pressure these injectors are controling and the abount of work and individual injector has to do in motorway dirve of say 100klms .or and hours work .if you measure the actual pulses and we would be talking millions . so on the theory that were theres friction and movement namatter how small theres is wear .and also the fuel .. diesel fuel is never as well refined a petrol . cut open a filter after its service life and you will find those microscopic particles of fine sand ..dust . like in the vidio the and some of this microscopic hard dust particle gets though and at those pressures you simply must have an erosion factor on injector parts .. there is no microscopic filtering and the diesel fuel standard does not state the degree of filtration we just have to trust to standard .and then again there is no way whatsoever to control the enviornment in which fuel is stored after its left production .. i would have no problem with clening injectors on diesel engine but it would never be a substitute for replacing worn injectors once they have gone through their gurnateed lifte cycle and that is considering they have always been goverened by good quality filters and fed with good quality fuel.. s
 

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How hard is it to take the nozzle off has anyone done it to see how much crap is inside would be intresting to see i might keep my eye out for a cheep one and take it to bits to see how it works.
 

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Megger
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I stripped an old injector down . Just because I wanted to see what was in it. There is a lot more to one than you'd think with springs to go weak and as salta said just because a part doesn't move much doesn't mean it can't wear. You may get injectors cleaned and notice a difference or like I did get them replaced and you'll be amazed at the difference, if cleaning was really cheap I might have tried it . But for that money put it towards new injectors
 

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Thats the issue, If it was £20 a set it would be worth a try, The adverts i saw for sonic cleaning were about £80
per injector. Extra £25 + vat of course and you have a properly reconditioned one.
 
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