probably no help but hows about too gloopy an oil ??

when warmed up its less gloopy & thus starts better, when cold its gloopy & creating more resistance for the starter to overcome.

same token, starter on its last legs - less to overcome when warmed up & thus works easier.

but the fuel pumps on these cars do have a habbit of being iffy with age.

I have had to give mine a quick cleanup in order to get it working again a while back - one of the electrical contacts inside the tank had basically crudded up to the point of stopping the leccy from flowing & thus the car stopped working, cleaned up the connector, rebuilt the car & its worked bang on since - although its still not 100% now its near 200k miles as its troublesome if I let the tank get below 1/4 - its can take a few turns of the key to get it to fire up, works bang on 1st turn when above 1/4 tank though

 

yes its hard to pinpoint why some mondys are a pig to start, but sorted one last week, battery seemed ok but not brilliant, fuel was under pressure (i just pulled the pipe untill it shot out under pressure as no test port)

so next was checking sparks, one spark was bright white and strong, the others were dull like a electric lighter.as the car had pretty new coil and plugs, new leads it was as they were probably 60k old.

car was then happy to start.

so make sure battery has enough umph

check the spark on all 4 pots, just sand/scrape the bottom of the plug before you earth it.

 

Cheers for the replies, pulled the plugs and they'd seen better days. So changed them to NGK Platinums, the leads and coil pack. Also cleaned the MAP sensor. Wasn't overly dirty, but cleaned it up.

However still got this starting issue, seems one in three starts and it'll struggle to kick off. My initial comments of it not happening when it's warm were wrong. It does it when it's warm too. I'm prepared to shell out a new fuel pump on it, but only if it looks more than likely it is this. Has anyone else had a similar problem thats been cured by a new pump? Ta

 

well you could pull the pipe slowly off the rail after a couple of hours, fuel will shoot out if its holding pressure (be careful loads of rags etc)

but done a few pumps and its not helped the long start,to me it seems like a air mix problem but i have played with a few mondys and changed loads of parts but other than the tmap have never found a cure.

only thing i have never tryed is advancing the crank sensor a smidge, it has about 5mm of adjustment either way. it is ment to be setup by locking off the crank pulley with a bolt through the hole and the sensor set smack on the middle of the tooth. but have wondered if like so many cars over time the chain could stretch a tad.

let us know if you ever find anything helpful, but dont go changing loads of sensors, swapped loads on a mates car many years ago, didnt help.

 

They all do it to some extent. Mine rarely takes a few turns to catch no matter how warm or cold it is. Most of the time though it fires instantly, whether warm or at -2.

When switching the engine off, it can help to floor the throttle as it is spooling down, this has something to do with purging the exhaust gas from the EGR, which otherwise floods into the engine when you next start it and causes it not fire.

Do you drive with low fuel sometimes? With below 1/4 of a tank, the fuel pump struggles a bit more. I dont know if this is because there is less gravity feeding it, or the amount of fuel in the lines drops to nothing while it sitting somehow. It also helps to let the pump prime fully before turning the key.

Combining all these things, the switching off trick, keeping it well fueled up and letting it prime has made the slow starting problem much rarer for me, and i haven't had to change the fuel pump.

 

also just another thing i remembered from years ago, if you have a leaky injector it will cause hard start. guess the fuel line will start draining back or the plug would get soaked?

the poster put a new injector in and problem gone.

easy enough to test, undo the two bolts, spray the holes with oil and wiggle the rail out. turn on ignition a few times to prime and check if any are leaking DO NOT START CAR.

also quick check the fuel pulse damper on the rail, just make sure no fuel on the pipe side.

 

Thanks for the replies, I bit the bullet and replaced the fuel pump. That, coupled with new plugs, leads, and coil pack, has improved the situation. I know I could just live with it, but I am fussy with my cars and like them runing just so.

I don't normally run my fuel that low, keep it at half a tank or more.

Will try what you said stripe about taking the injectors out to see if any are leaking.

I bought the car cheap, knew it wouldn't be perfect, but knew I could get it close to perfect.

 

SORTED!

Despite loosing the thick end of £200 replacing stuff (although the plugs had seen better days), I started looking at the intake. The throttle body seemed to stick and was stiff to operate when it returned to the closed position. I couldn't see any adjustment on the stop so fitted a small cable tie round it to increase it by a milimetre or two and voila not an issue in 5 days with starting. Hope this helps someone else in the future!

 

I can't see how this will fix it.

Fingers crossed though!

 

it may be down to the fact that the throttle body no longer seals when closed & is now letting out the contents of the intake manifold just as the throttling as the engine cuts off does.

on the subject of the throttle body though, it defo should not be iffy when closed, main causes when not faulty for that is using a jubilee clip on the throttle body end & doing it up too tight or a big old buildup of EGR crap on the rear side of the throttle body.

whip it off & give it a clean & see if it moves free, it should move nice & clean al the way through from start to end etc & form a nice seal when closed - no air gaps etc.

 

My theory is, that if when the butterfly is closed it's creating a perfect seal due to the crud built up over the years and it sticking when you initially move it, then how is it going to get any air whilst cranking? Further proved when you turn the engine off, move the butterfly on the throttle body and hear it gasping like there is a vacuum there (for want of a better way of putting it). Used a load of brake cleaner and a small flat blade screw driver to clean it up as best I could, but left my 2p cable tie in situ too just to give that mm or two of movement. Either way it's worked and I'm happy!

 

have you checked the idle air control valve and checked its rubber gasket?

what am i doing its christmas day!!!!! back to the family.

 

My theory is, that if when the butterfly is closed it's creating a perfect seal due to the crud built up over the years and it sticking when you initially move it, then how is it going to get any air whilst cranking? Further proved when you turn the engine off, move the butterfly on the throttle body and hear it gasping like there is a vacuum there (for want of a better way of putting it). Used a load of brake cleaner and a small flat blade screw driver to clean it up as best I could, but left my 2p cable tie in situ too just to give that mm or two of movement. Either way it's worked and I'm happy!

its meant to make a near perfect seal ( but still move from its stop cleanly )

the idle air is sorted by the fact there is a bypass circuit controlled by the idle air control valve ( the little silver cylinder just beyond the throttle body on the intake monifold itself )

this is ECU controlled to give the correct idle air amounts ( air amount needed differs as the engine warms up - as it idles at around 1200rpms cold & warms up & idles at around 700rpms ish )

you can see the bypass hole in these piccies ( or at least in some of them )

this is my motas OEM throttle body after a quick cleanup after about 185k miles done, still moved nice & free etc even with the tiny buildup behind it, also pictured with it is the replacement currently on the car, a CFM one from a 2.3 focus, as can be seen the main openings a tiny bit bigger & the idle bypass holes differ slightly but it works just as well & both flaps close fully with no trouble when opening again

but if your fix works then feck it, tis just one to keep an eye on as it may cause issues later on if its not getting a good seal round the throttle plate :L ( lets hope it stays working just as it is now though )

 

another thing to try if your ever arsed to investigate further is that the ensor on the other side is not sticking ( so unscrew, remove & test throttle movements without the sensor present - it wont work the engine very well like this but good enough for a manual test without engine running )